Condo?

[Confetti]

Can someone please explain to me how you buy a piece of a building and not the land it sits on? Ok, you can buy a mobile home and not the land it sits on, but you own the entire moblie home and can do with it as you please. But if you own a piece of the building, who owns the land? What if the person who owns the land doesn't want your building there anymore? What if the other people who own pieces of the building decide to do something you don't agree with? If you rent, you can move, but not if that's your home.

I live in a rural area where there are no condos and I just can't grasp the concept of someone paying a large sum of money to "own" part of a building. It doesn't seem like real ownership to me. Can you help me understand?

[MiikeB]

Condos have associations that make a lot of decisions, sort of like cities have city counsels. Many, if not all, of the concerns are addressed in the association agreements you sign when you purchase the building.

[disneysteve]

All good questions. I've always found the concept a bit odd myself.

Yes, the condo association could vote to do something that you disapprove of and you'd be stuck going along with it. Either that, or you put the place up for sale and move. Of course, the same thing could happen in a single home with a strong homeowners association. That's why we purposely bought a home in a development that did not have an HOA. We didn't want anyone else telling us what we could or couldn't do with our property.

As for the land owner not wanting the building there anymore, I'm not quite sure how that works but I'm thinking that each condo owner is considered a partial land owner as well. I'm sure someone else can say if that is true or not.

[sjenkins]

explain to me the land transfer tax :-P

What land?

[Seeker]

Can someone please explain to me how you buy a piece of a building and not the land it sits on? Ok, you can buy a mobile home and not the land it sits on, but you own the entire moblie home and can do with it as you please. But if you own a piece of the building, who owns the land? What if the person who owns the land doesn't want your building there anymore? What if the other people who own pieces of the building decide to do something you don't agree with? If you rent, you can move, but not if that's your home.

I live in a rural area where there are no condos and I just can't grasp the concept of someone paying a large sum of money to "own" part of a building. It doesn't seem like real ownership to me. Can you help me understand?

You do buy the land too... it's just not physically equivalent to the land that the property touches.

For instance the unit above me does not really sit on "land." Yet they pay a proportion of the property taxes based on their proportion of the family unit within the complex.

On the other hand, I do not have a roof. But when roofing is replaced I have a proportional amount of a Special Assessment to pay when that roofing is replaced.

Land is really community property that is split up into portions of the whole complex. We pay property taxes on land. We have a proportional interest in whatever happens to it and therefore it's very unlikely that one or more of the "owners" (we the family units within the complex) would desire to "get rid" of one of the buildings within the whole complex.

Mobile home lots are different. Generally you rent the lot where your mobile home sits.

When purchasing a condo or anything within a "shared" community (HOA fees), you are 1/xxxx (whatever the total number of family units is) of the owners. You are an owner and your vote counts.

It's rare that something will be decided that you are adamantly against. It's always "majority" rules.... and usually the majority knows what's really warranted or needed.

The land is essentially community property and individuals within the "community" cannot do anything with it. If someone damages a tree outside and the association catches that someone (one of the kids for instance); then that family will pay a fine of sorts for defacing community property.

The HOA makes the decisions for the shared externals (ie landscaping, exterior painting, roofing, antennas, lighting, etc), and anything of a nature like you have described would have to come to a vote... by law.

[DebbieL]

I live (rent) in a condo complex and would never buy one. When I buy a place, I want to be able to put up what curtains I want, have a barbeque if I want (not allowed here), have a dog if I want (not allowed here). There are just too many rules, and too much politics, for my liking in a condo.

[thekid]

A condo arrangement is a way to own property jointly with other people. The property owned jointly includes the land and the building (if the land isn't owned it will be leased, and what happens to the building will be adressed in the lease -but this is very rare).

Now, in joint property, there is "private" parts and "communal" parts. Private parts are for the exclusive use of a certain co-owner and communal parts are for use by all co-owners. Your "condo" (ie. the appartment) will be a "private" part and the land and communal areas of the property will be "communal" parts. The co-owners will enter into an agreement that will set forth the specifics of decision making relating to the property.

So, when you own a "condo" you are a co-owner of the land and whole building, with privative rights to certain parts of the building.

Disclamer: at least this is the case under Quebec property law. Property laws don't really diverge much in their basic concepts, but let me know if things are different in other jurisdictions.

[Seeker]

I live (rent) in a condo complex and would never buy one. When I buy a place, I want to be able to put up what curtains I want, have a barbeque if I want (not allowed here), have a dog if I want (not allowed here). There are just too many rules, and too much politics, for my liking in a condo.

I think this really depends upon the Rules & Regulations of the complex. It's also a document you can view before making the decision to purchase.

Our complex does not dictate curtains... just that they not be obviously shredded or objectionable by exterior views. We are not supposed to have any kind of decorations on the window sills -- which in my opinion makes it easier to keep clean anyway. Screening also has to be kept in good repair.

Most all the rules & regulations are for the common good and for the benefit of property looks. The Rules are Regs are modified by the BOD (Board of Directors) of the Association. The BOD is elected and the BOD are members of the community. Every year, the people of the complex have to make desicions who will be on the BOD for the next year.

The BOD and Rules are not there to make things difficult... they are there to hear out the problems, see that they get resolved, and make sure that the property not only holds value, but hopefully gains value through their efforts.

Sometimes rules can be a good thing too. I can think of many houses that can use a few good rules that would benefit their neighbors as well. Landscaping not taken care of, trash all over the place, etc. But the houses in those cases are complete personal properties. Can these people do anything about their neighbors in that case?

Yes, there are pluses and minuses to everything. But you can easily request a copy of the Rules and Regulations BEFORE making a decision to purchase.

---

Oh also we used to have barbeque grills in the public areas. They were taken out and into the Rules, came some new rules....we can place our own BBQ in our wooded fenced patio area (or balcony for those above)... anytime we want. We can even have an umbrella covered table as long as we take down the umbrella when not used (winds can sometimes be a problem).

[MonkeyMama]

I live (rent) in a condo complex and would never buy one. When I buy a place, I want to be able to put up what curtains I want, have a barbeque if I want (not allowed here), have a dog if I want (not allowed here). There are just too many rules, and too much politics, for my liking in a condo.

We could do all these things in the condo we owned. I think you are confusing renting with owning. (Though granted some condo associations have more rules than others). There's not a lot we couldn't do in ours.

You own a piece of the land and the common grounds usually (walls and roof often considered common areas, as well as grounds and landscaping). No one else can sell it - that does not make any sense.

The reason we owned a condo was because no house worth owning cost less than $500k. & renting the same place cost like twice as much. You get a slice of home ownership without the insane cost, in big cities.

[DebbieL]

I'm definitely not confusing renting with owning. Those are the strata rules where I live (no different whether you are an owner or a renter). There are no BBQs allowed on balconies, etc. The list goes on and on. Condo associations have pretty strict rules in most of the buildings (at least around where I live they do). Personally, it just isn't a form of ownership that interests me. I have no desire to be told what I can or can't do in my own place (within the limits of the law of course). Plus, after you've already bought, the rules can change.

[disneysteve]

Debbie, I agree with you. As I mentioned earlier, though, that isn't just a problem with condos. Single home developments often have homeowner associations with similar rules. I don't want to be told what color to paint my house, how often to mow my lawn, what kind of trash can I have to buy, etc. So we bought a house where there were no such rules.

[snafu]

The type of housing you choose to buy is dependent on your lifestyle. We've owned 3 houses over many years but when we started accepting foreign contracts a single family dwelling was no longer suitable. We didn't have a HOA and leaving a home vacant for more than 6 weeks made us uncomfortable.

Living in a townhouse condo complex gives us the same square footage and there are enough people around to keep our unit from looking unihabitated. As mentioned it's imparative to read the rules and decide if you find them easy to comply with. Likewise, you need to stay up-to-date with the complex's Reserve Fund so that you aren't suddenly asked for a one-time Assessment. The Board of Director minutes tells you problems solved, being examined or upcoming/expected. The monthly e-mailed Newsletter gives an overview and tells you who to contact to sort out any issue.

We haven't run into anything we wish to do that would not be allowed. We're grateful our neighbor can't paint her unit fushia or sunflower yellow. We have more amenities and an on-site social network when we choose to participate.

[ceejay74]

Owning a condo has lots of advantages. Most of the rules in mine are very commonsense. And of course my property taxes are a fraction of what they'd be in a house! Eventually I may want pets and a yard, but until then I'm quite happy. And yes, we can grill on the balcony, as long as we use an electric grill, and the walls and ceiling are so thick we almost never hear our neighbors (and we've never gotten a noise complaint having a party). We have a 24-hour security desk and package pickup in the next building, a pool on the roof, and an exercise room and a party room. The laundry room is right out in the hallway, one per floor, and it's maintained by the condo association.

I can see some of the rules listed above as being too much, but honestly in lots of places there aren't really any. Our friends live in a condo where there are way fewer rules than in mine--everyone has dogs in that building!

[skydivingchic]

DBF and I bought a condo because it was what we could afford at the time. The San Diego real estate market is insane. At the time a decent house in a decent neighborhood was at least $500k, often more. We've been there for 6 years now and are quite happy. There are rules, but the rules for our HOA are pretty common sense. As Disneysteve pointed out, many of the newer single family home developments around here have HOAs and the associated rules as well - not just condos.

DBF and I have mulled over moving up to a single family home, but really don't think we are ready for it yet. One of the great things about condos is that there is so little maintenance. No yardwork (which in San Diego is a year round saga), no worrying about roof replacement, no stucco painting, etc, etc. All we have to worry about is the interior stuff. Not for everyone, but a condo has been a great option for us.

[Seeker]

One of the great things about condos is that there is so little maintenance. No yardwork (which in San Diego is a year round saga), no worrying about roof replacement, no stucco painting, etc, etc. All we have to worry about is the interior stuff. Not for everyone, but a condo has been a great option for us.

Sorry Skydivingchic, but if your complex needed roof replacement, you can 100% bet you will have to pay some extra dollars for that roof replacement; Special Assessments are within the rules for those exteriors. Remember, the exterior is "community property," they can choose to spilt up the costs per unit and not demolish the Reserve Funds.

I've lived in a condo complex for pretty close to 18 years (nor was it purchased "new").

We voted (like all the others) to pay for a roofing replacement since the rains started placing light water stains on the exterior walls where joints are sideways (believe me others had much worse water problems from the rains).

We paid some extra $150 for a special assement when exterior paint was renewed.

And we also paid more dollars when termite infested fences were replaced with redwood (which termites don't much like to eat).

Either way, Special Assements will be assessed depending on the age of the complex and it's needs.