Wife Threatening To Leave!!

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-09-2009, 01:00 PM

How much debt are you in?
what does your budget look like?
what is your financial situation?

**GREENBACK** · 02-09-2009, 01:14 PM

That's a tricky one. Are you in debt because of the cards?
Are you using them responsibly? I.E. paying them off every month?
If the answer is yes(1) and no(2) I would not suggest using them. I use credit cards regularly but always pay the balance when due. Not everyone has this discipline. Ask yourself and your wife if you have this discipline. If there is even so much as a maybe in the answer then the cards should go. A marriage saving compromise could be freezing all but one in a jug of water for a while to see if you can live without them.

They are a convinence and you can get a few perks from them but if she's somehow feels she "needs" them I think thats a problem.

**minnie1928** · 02-09-2009, 01:23 PM

I can't tell from your post, but is your wife on board with paying off the debt? If so, then why don't you simply take all the credit cards and lock them up somewhere or freeze them. If you are in a situation where the credit cards will be too tempting, then you need to put them some where that makes them inconvenient (really inconvenient) to get to.

I've never understood the need to "cut them up" either, even if you cut them they can still be used online if you have the pertinent information.

This is not worth ruining your marriage for! You need to find a compromise on this. Thirteen cards is a lot of cards, perhaps she would feel better if you each carried 1 card and put the others away. Once she sees that she doesn't even need that one card, then put that one away if you/she wants to. This is as much a mental task as it is a physical one.

Good luck!

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-09-2009, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by minnie1928 View Post

I can't tell from your post, but is your wife on board with paying off the debt? If so, then why don't you simply take all the credit cards and lock them up somewhere or freeze them. If you are in a situation where the credit cards will be too tempting, then you need to put them some where that makes them inconvenient (really inconvenient) to get to.

I've never understood the need to "cut them up" either, even if you cut them they can still be used online if you have the pertinent information.

This is not worth ruining your marriage for! You need to find a compromise on this. Thirteen cards is a lot of cards, perhaps she would feel better if you each carried 1 card and put the others away. Once she sees that she doesn't even need that one card, then put that one away if you/she wants to. This is as much a mental task as it is a physical one.

Good luck!

find one card, one benefit, and choose to maximize that benefit. We have around 8 cards I believe (between wife and I), and the primary card pays down our 2nd mortgage and the second choice of card is one that pays down our 1st mortgage. No other rebate made sense to me right now.

**brianj** · 02-09-2009, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by GREENBACK View Post

That's a tricky one. Are you in debt because of the cards?
Are you using them responsibly? I.E. paying them off every month?
If the answer is yes(1) and no(2) I would not suggest using them. I use credit cards regularly but always pay the balance when due. Not everyone has this discipline. Ask yourself and your wife if you have this discipline. If there is even so much as a maybe in the answer then the cards should go. A marriage saving compromise could be freezing all but one in a jug of water for a while to see if you can live without them.

They are a convinence and you can get a few perks from them but if she's somehow feels she "needs" them I think thats a problem.

Thank for your advice.

I believe that one of the reasons we are in debt is due to having them because, until then the only debt we had was our home.

We pay on our cards separately now because, my wife continued to recharge her cards up. I have seven cards in my name and she has ten in her name. I am down to one card in my name and she still owes on all ten of her cards.

**minnie1928** · 02-09-2009, 01:52 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention, we've followed DR since January 2005 and it's been great. However, we did NOT follow his program to the letter. We did not cut up the cards (we always paid them in full even before DR), we didn't cut the 401k contribution, we don't use cash, etc. We found the parts of the program that worked for us and stuck with it. I'm telling you this to show you that you can be successful with his plan, without following his plan 100%.

**minnie1928** · 02-09-2009, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by brianj View Post

Thank for your advice.

I believe that one of the reasons we are in debt is due to having them because, until then the only debt we had was our home.

We pay on our cards separately now because, my wife continued to recharge her cards up. I have seven cards in my name and she has ten in her name. I am down to one card in my name and she still owes on all ten of her cards.

If she's carrying 10 cards and using 10 cards, there's a definite problem there. She's refusing because she feels dependent upon the cards. Maybe you need to get creative here....perhaps, ask her to leave 8 cards at home or give her cash for the week to spend as she wants (knowing it's all she has for the week). Whatever you decide to try, I'd suggest you do that as well. That way it's not "I'm saying you can only spend $x in cash this week". Make it more of a team effort, "How about if we each get $x to spend each week?". If you don't spend your money, great...but at least this way she won't feel so singled out.

**sweeps** · 02-09-2009, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by brianj View Post

Citing that "many people use them in a responsible way to support their finances in the future - that's why we do not need to cut up our cards."

Did you tell her, "Yeah, but you're not one of them."?

To play devil's advocate here, is it possible that you have gone to an extreme with DR's teachings and it's caused your wife to go on the defensive? I don't listen to DR at all, but from what I have heard about him, there's not a lot of flexibility in his plan.

**snafu** · 02-09-2009, 02:03 PM

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use them in a responsible way to support their finances in the future -

Some questions...How does DW use 13 CCs? Does she like the Idea of all that credit or does she Use all that credit? Are the cards joint or only in her name? Does she find shopping theraputic? Is she getting a high from buying?

Do you have buy-in with the idea of reducing debt? Arguing is negative, what postive actions have you taken? Have you stopped using CCs? cut-up your cards? Do you return anything she buys for you on CC? Have you created a poster sized chart to visually promote your ideas? What can you do or relinquish to get DW to buy-in to the idea of not using credit?

**whitestripe** · 02-09-2009, 02:33 PM

You are going to have to point out to your wife that just because other people use them in a responsible way, doesnt mean that is an excuse to her to keep hers and use them IRRESPONSIBLY.

Maybe you could consider 'divorcing finances'. Then her money (or her debt) will be her own, and she will have to make proper choices and not have you to rely on to fix them. Then she might realise you were right in wanting to cut them up.

**GREENBACK** · 02-09-2009, 02:34 PM

I get this whole Ramsey thing but it seems a lot of folks think they should worship at his altar. He's not the end all to be all! Only an individual can determine their own path. He makes a fortune giving advice but that's what it is; advice, not gospel. DR doesn't know everyone's situation and particularly if you have a disagreeing spouse but you want to remain together. It's time to use a little finesse if your direct approach ain't working.

You said that you "believe" the reason is the cards. To me that's a sure indicator. The cards are the problem. You two need to track expenses to see where you both are spending using these cards. I think you'll find an multitude of unnecessary purchases. This may be reality check but can you sell it to DW. This might poor gas on the fire and that's where you'll really find out if the cc's are a make or break deal for the two of you. I hope it's an eye opener that gets you both on the same page. Use sugar and not vinegar during this process.

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-09-2009, 03:01 PM

Until wife alknowledges the problem you will not be able to suggest any good solution. I liked the cash idea- but some people have to spend more than others. Longer commute, women get hair done more often and is more expensive...

You need to do a few things, IMO to trigger the alknowledgement of the problem:

1) have you discussed retirement with wife? Date, location, what retirement means?

2) do you have kids? How will they be impacted by #1?

3) do you have short term goals (like kids education)?

4) do you have a budget which
a) spends less than you earn
b) allows for reaching of goal #1
c) allows for reaching goal #2
d) allows for reaching goal #3
e) allows for other goals not listed in this basic excercise?

Get onto same page on these issues. 4a might get dicey if you bring up the debt- so avoid the debt while doing 4a- just list the basic expenses of the household and then see what is left over.

A good financial plan will have you spending only 80% of what you earn. The other 20% funds long and short term goals.

20% of your gross pay should be set aside somewhere as "cash" and "invested" to your financial independance.

15% of your gross should go to 401k or a similar retirement plan (like a Roth IRA)
5% of your gross to short term savings (vacations, mortgage pay down, new car fund, kids college funds...)

The 15% to retirement is relatively rigid- a person would have to spend a lot of time convincing me they do not need to save 15%.

The 5% is a gray area- for some families this might need to be 10-20% because of fluctuating income, job uncertainty, or coming close to a certain goal (the year before college or retirement, for example).

If you are heavy into debt, I suggest 20% of gross pay going to debt repayment. This means if you gross 100k per year, 20k per year goes to pay down debt (cc debt and car loans type). 100k gross would probably be about 66k after taxes, so 20k of the 66k is what I am suggesting for debt repayment- that is not a misprint.

The issue I have with DR or similar advice is that he looks at expenses and suggests cutting them. I prefer to look at income and then base everything off the income.

20% of gross income to savings...
then balance the budget living on 80% of what you make. Whether you make 40k or 300k, the same 80% rule applies and same 20% rule applies. Always save 20%. 20% of salary, 20% of commissions, 20% of bonuses... and this gives you a flow chart for your money.

**maat55** · 02-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Using credit cards takes a lot of discipline. She obviously is not disciplined enough to do so. The idea of having ten is a sign in its self.

You seem to be doing well with it by getting yours payed off. I used to be hard nosed no cards, but have learned to use one well.

My wife followed my lead reluctantly. If yours is not willing, you may be looking at counceling. Good luck.

**zetta** · 02-09-2009, 04:43 PM

If you are heavy into debt, I suggest 20% of gross pay going to debt repayment. This means if you gross 100k per year, 20k per year goes to pay down debt (cc debt and car loans type). 100k gross would probably be about 66k after taxes, so 20k of the 66k is what I am suggesting for debt repayment- that is not a misprint.

Jim_Ohio,
Just curious, are you recommending that the hypothetical person making 100k gross (66k net) should send 20k to pay down debt IN ADDITION to 15k to retirement and 5k to short-term savings? Thus living on only the remaining 26k? Or would you recommend suspending the retirement and short-term savings until the debt is paid off, thus living on 46k?

Wife Threatening To Leave!!