Auto bailout makes no sense

[GrimJack]

I would really love to see how someone calculated that a auto manufacturing employee produces $206/hour in value added.

If you really want to know, look here.

[GrimJack]

[QUOTE=maat55;199213]

Again, I could care less what any company pays its workers as long as they do not come to me for help.

Government bailouts are my problem.

The auto industry knew it had a problem long ago and did nothing about, they disserve to go through BK to clean it up.

Good enough. We have both had our say, time to move on. I am sure we will meet again, thanks for the discussion.

[Goldy1]

[QUOTE=GrimJack;199216]

Good enough. We have both had our say, time to move on. I am sure we will meet again, thanks for the discussion.

Goo dpoint. It is a hairball mess with layers of issues, and I am starting to tune it out, and avoid discussing it in general myself. lol

[kork13]

I'm resurrecting this thread, but something of note...

How long does it take to flush $7.5 BILLION down the toilet? Well, apparently about 7 months. The White House has confirmed that Chrysler will not be repaying the federal government (and by the Feds, I mean US--you and me) the $7.5B they've been given. Story.

[disneysteve]

What a surprise. Did anybody really think otherwise? The government could have done a lot more good for the economy with $7.5 billion.

[Scanner]

I have said this before and I'll say it again - if you are going to Nationalize something, than nationalize it. If not, then shoot it and put it out of it's misery.

The banks? Yeah, sure, nationalize them. We can't do without banks. Now BoA needs another 34 billion and maybe Citibank. When will Obama just show the executives and shareholders the door, walk in, and put his feet up on their desks and say, "I'm in charge now."? But noooooooo. . .that would be sociailsm (as if anyone really cares).

The auto companies? They are a dime a' dozen. Should have never thrown them a lifeline. Chevy and Chrysler wanted to make gas guzzlin' SUV's and pick-ups thinking oil would always be $35/barrel. They deserve to die. Everybody's worried about lost jobs - boo, hoo. . .again, I don't get the jobless.

Besides that, we still have Ford who apparently was smart in their financial management and have cash to weather the recession. So we help the stupid managers and let the good managers do their thing. . .makes no sense.

[Scanner]

Another problem with not letting these auto companies fail is this:

Business failure is what drives capitalism.

If auto companies aren't allowed to fail and go bankrupt, then they never learn anything and no innovation and progress is allowed to be had.

The truth is with all the vacant factories out there, I bet if they were allowed to fail that a start-up company would take it's place within a matter of 2-5 years, one with leaner operating expenses and one with something innovative to bring to the market. Jobs would be eventually replaced.

But instead, it looks like we are stuck with the same old Jeeps and Silverados.

If I worked there, I'd be ashamed to know I was on welfare, making cars that don't fit the people's needs or wants.

[disneysteve]

Business failure is what drives capitalism.

This is such a great statement.

I was thinking about this the other day. I was driving around and passed some big going out of business sale signs. It occurred to me that even though many big chains have closed up over the years, we sitll have plenty of stores. I started thinking about department stores. Clover, Caldor, Two Guys, Bradlees, Zales, Dry Goods, Korvettes, J.M. Fields are all department store chains that have gone out of business in this area over the years. One might think that with all of those business failures, our area must be in bad shape. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Almost every single one of those stores' former locations became other stores and are still going strong today with businesses that didn't formerly exist or weren't in this area.

Of course, building cars is more complex than selling socks and toys, but I agree that if one of the big 3 (or 2 of them) were to fail, something would take their place.

[red92s]

So let's see, in order here:

- Government loans Chrysler $7 Billion dollars, including over $3 Billion last week.
- Chrysler announces today it will not be repaying the taxpayer loans, or even the associated fees.
- The US taxpayers now officially own 8% of Chrysler, and are a stakeholder in the success and future sales of the company.
- Obama urges car shoppers to buy American vehicles, and will be incentivizing the purchase of new cars (foreign and domestic).
- Chrysler announces new larger rebates on new vehicle purchases.


Yeah . . . no conflict of interest here . . . none, at all.

Obama (and Bush) have gotten pretty good mileage out of vilifying the mortgage lending industry for "making loans they knew the people could not afford to repay". But, we are handing over $3B to a company to "help them through bankruptcy" knowing full well they will discharge the debt the next week. To top it all off, the proposed "cash for clunkers" program to boost sales of NEW vehicles pretty much eschews the doctrine of "financial restraint and responsibility" Obama perches from his pulpit.

And the UAW workers? Yep, sitting at home, collecting full-time pay watching the whole thing unfold on their flatscreen TV's.

[Scanner]

To me, a more creative thing to do, if you had to bail them out, if you felt compelled to, would be to nationalize healthcare.

Tell GM and Chrysler that in one fell swoop, you can write down the cost of healthcare on your employees and retirees. Such a piece of national legislation will nullify any healthcare contract under ERISA law that they currently have. In effect, hand retirees Medicare like the rest of the hardworking country.

Obama kills 2 birds with 1 stone - healthcare and the auto industry debacle.

When you get down to it, healthcare is American business' albatross anyway. It's what keeping us from being globally competitive and what is preventing small business start-ups.

[Scanner]

Still, I wonder if buying a Chrysler doesn't make sense now. . .we do need a minivan and I hear the incentive is now $6000 or $5000.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Scanner it probably would change the unions dynamics and negotiation strategies if healthcare were nationalized. But what about pensions? If the federal and state governments can still afford pensions, why can't private companies?