There is nothing wrong with spending money

[disneysteve]

It's the American (and spreading to other countries) need to possess things that really turns me off. It just strikes me as selfish...taking the $20K jewelry for example - that could fund the local food bank in my community for a year. Compare that to the purchaser having some more bling on his/her body, and it's a no-brainer (to me).

Again, I see your point, but where do you draw the line? You could also say that spending $2,000 for an engagement ring could have funded the food bank for a couple of months. Or that instead of spending 20K on a car, you could buy a 10K car instead and fund the food bank for 6 months.

The bottom line is that anything you spend money on beyond food, clothing, shelter, medical care and education could be considered extravagant by someone. If we spend $4,000 for a cruise, that's really no different than someone else spending 20K for a diamond necklace.

[feh]

Again, I see your point, but where do you draw the line? You could also say that spending $2,000 for an engagement ring could have funded the food bank for a couple of months. Or that instead of spending 20K on a car, you could buy a 10K car instead and fund the food bank for 6 months.

The bottom line is that anything you spend money on beyond food, clothing, shelter, medical care and education could be considered extravagant by someone. If we spend $4,000 for a cruise, that's really no different than someone else spending 20K for a diamond necklace.

I agree with you. There is much grey area here.

I'm not suggesting we all live as monks and give every spare penny to the United Way. We all draw the line in a different spot.

But I will stand by my original examples - spending tens of thousands of dollars on items that are clearly wants, not needs, is pure indulgence, IMO.

[Broken Arrow]

Since this is brought up, I do think what is considered as "acceptable spending" will vary for each individual household. Perhaps it would be easier to look at it in terms of % rather than absolute dollar values, and whether or not it is within budget....

[GREENBACK]

I see everyone's point. I would never buy something that was obviously a ridiculous purchase even if I had the money for it. From my perspective, I've spent money on fun things that were practical for me and are not things that are just for short term happiness. I do believe strongly that if your needs are truly being taken care of then it's ok to responsibly satisfy some of your wants. Just be sure it's really a want and not a whim. There is obviously a frugal mindset here that views 100k cars and multi million dollar paintings as a waste and I couldn't agree more. Priorities are different for everyone and even the rich sometimes learn the hard lesson that you can't buy everything that thrills you at the moment

[disneysteve]

Since this is brought up, I do think what is considered as "acceptable spending" will vary for each individual household. Perhaps it would be easier to look at it in terms of % rather than absolute dollar values, and whether or not it is within budget....

I agree. That line of what is acceptable spending is going to move with income.

I may think spending 50K on a car is ridiculous, but if I earned $5 million/year, that would actually represent a far smaller portion of my income than if I currently went out and spent 20K on a car.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Woah. I hate to point out that you do sound like you are judging by saying someone should save money to retire earlier, give to kids, and give the money away.

What if the people don't want to stop working and already have enough to retire now but choose to work?

What if they don't have kids? What if they already give away 20% of their income?

Why do you assume that it's indulgent to buy an expensive car or nice jewelry? I think bill gates can afford it and can afford to retire now. Does it make him a bad guy?

Or warren buffet for his own plane. Over the top? Yes. But not in his lifestyle.

[feh]

Woah. I hate to point out that you do sound like you are judging by saying someone should save money to retire earlier, give to kids, and give the money away.

What if the people don't want to stop working and already have enough to retire now but choose to work?

What if they don't have kids? What if they already give away 20% of their income?

Why do you assume that it's indulgent to buy an expensive car or nice jewelry? I think bill gates can afford it and can afford to retire now. Does it make him a bad guy?

Or warren buffet for his own plane. Over the top? Yes. But not in his lifestyle.

We'll just have to disagree. I feel spending large amounts of money on unnecessary items, even if a person can afford them, is wasteful.

I never called anybody who does this "a bad guy" or that the act is "wrong". I simply find it indulgent.

[disneysteve]

I feel spending large amounts of money on unnecessary items, even if a person can afford them, is wasteful.

I never called anybody who does this "a bad guy" or that the act is "wrong". I simply find it indulgent.

Not disagreeing, but again, I think what constitutes "large amounts" or "indulgence" is subjective and largely dependent on one's income.

If you earn $10 million/year, can it really be said to be overly indulgent to spend 1% of your income on a car when my next car will probably cost 15% of my income? Who is indulging themselves more?

[feh]

If you earn $10 million/year, can it really be said to be overly indulgent to spend 1% of your income on a car when my next car will probably cost 15% of my income? Who is indulging themselves more?

Most people need the use of a car. I don't think spending $20K on a car for an average person/household is indulgent (whether they can afford it or not is another matter).

Spending $100K on a car, regardless of income, is indulgent in my opinion. If I were making $10M/year, I hope I would be able to stop myself from spending money in such a way.

If I were making that much money, would I satisfy more wants in my life than I currently do? I'm sure I would. But I like to think I would not make extravagant, wasteful purchases.

[disneysteve]

Most people need the use of a car. I don't think spending $20K on a car for an average person/household is indulgent (whether they can afford it or not is another matter).

Spending $100K on a car, regardless of income, is indulgent in my opinion. If I were making $10M/year, I hope I would be able to stop myself from spending money in such a way.

If I were making that much money, would I satisfy more wants in my life than I currently do? I'm sure I would. But I like to think I would not make extravagant, wasteful purchases.

I agree with you. I'm just being ornery.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Most people need the use of a car. I don't think spending $20K on a car for an average person/household is indulgent (whether they can afford it or not is another matter).

Spending $100K on a car, regardless of income, is indulgent in my opinion. If I were making $10M/year, I hope I would be able to stop myself from spending money in such a way.

If I were making that much money, would I satisfy more wants in my life than I currently do? I'm sure I would. But I like to think I would not make extravagant, wasteful purchases.

Feh I hate to point but by you saying it's extravagent and wasteful you are making a judgement. If you said "i would not make the same purchases without qualifying" them as wasteful and extravagent.

THEN I would buy that you are not judging people. BUT you are judging and calling people bad.

If I had bought a $100k car because I won the lotto and had $100 million you'd just call my purchse wasteful and extravagent. Basically I "wasted" my money, which makes me a "bad" person and making the "Wrong" decision.

Look you're expressing an opinion fine, but seriously get over it. It's everyone's money to decide how to spend it.

What is everyone's problem about how others spend their damn money? It's money.

Sure it's not YOUR cup of tea, but stop judging.

[feh]

Feh I hate to point but by you saying it's extravagent and wasteful you are making a judgement. If you said "i would not make the same purchases without qualifying" them as wasteful and extravagent.

THEN I would buy that you are not judging people. BUT you are judging and calling people bad.

If I had bought a $100k car because I won the lotto and had $100 million you'd just call my purchse wasteful and extravagent. Basically I "wasted" my money, which makes me a "bad" person and making the "Wrong" decision.

Look you're expressing an opinion fine, but seriously get over it. It's everyone's money to decide how to spend it.

What is everyone's problem about how others spend their damn money? It's money.

Sure it's not YOUR cup of tea, but stop judging.

Clearly people can spend their money any way they see fit. I never suggested otherwise.

I'm judging the act, not the person. Can you see the difference?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Nope cause you keep defining it as wasteful and extravagent. Which are not positive descriptions. Describing it as purchases you wouldn't make give it no judgement or opinion.

[Exile]

My wife and I are both 44. We have savings equal to over 3 times our annual income (and probably 5 times our annual expenses). I certainly wouldn't want to burn through a lot of that money if I became unemployed, but it would be there if absolutely necessary. I certainly couldn't say the same thing 15 years ago when I was just starting out.

You are to be congratulated for building such a sizeable savings cushion. But won't you grant that's easier to do for professionals than for the average working person?

As a former member of that demographic, I'm not saying that it can't be done. After all, there's no way that DW and I could have retired three years ago at (my) age 60 if we weren't prudent and did everything that we could to turn our finances around. And by living modestly, so far we're able to get by nicely here in the Philippines, mostly on just our social security. Obviously, we wouln't be able to do that in the States, but if we spent money here the way we would really like to, we'd be dead broke. It's the exercise of restraint that makes the difference at any point in life and in any place.

[feh]

Nope cause you keep defining it as wasteful and extravagent. Which are not positive descriptions. Describing it as purchases you wouldn't make give it no judgement or opinion.

Very well. Make whatever assumption you want regarding my state of mind (I find it entertaining when somebody on a message board claims to know what another poster is feeling/thinking ). I'm not interested in arguing with you.

We obviously disagree on this subject. Let's leave it at that.