Suze Orman or Dave Ramsey?

[cptacek]

What I don't like about Dave Ramsey is that he thinks ALL debt is bad ALL the time. Even debt to help increase your income potential (college loans, investing in your business, etc.) and he thinks that no one can responsibly handle a credit card.

[maat55]

What I don't like about Dave Ramsey is that he thinks ALL debt is bad ALL the time. Even debt to help increase your income potential (college loans, investing in your business, etc.) and he thinks that no one can responsibly handle a credit card.

It's true that some debt can be used responsibly and the same with credit cards. But, these tools, like with guns, in the wrong hands are damaging. If you can prosper without them, why use them?

Dave appeals mostly to those who have never learned to use debt properly and are looking for someone to tell them, just say no. I'm a fan, but have a mortgage (which he is ok with) and two credit cards I pay in full. But, I wish I didn't have a mortgage and I am considering cutting up the cards.

For those who have a good handle on their finances, debt and CC's are controllable. But for those who struggle with their money, lookout. IMO.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually dave says you should try to buy homes without mortgages, which is plain stupid. How long do you rent for? 10+ years? Where I live you could save my house amount in 10 years for the average person. It's more than the median salary in the US gross. And sure there is some compound interest but can it really make up $60k/year?

Most of Dave's home ownership advice works in places where life is cheap. Expensive areas, 25% PITI on 15 year fixed? Ain't ever going to happn.

[rob62521]

[QUOTE=JNDN99;171837]Actually, that is how some people think - that they have to have a credit card for such things. I have not had a credit card in over 7 years and book all my travel online and travel frequently. I book flights, hotels and even rental cars with my bank debit card and have no trouble what so ever.

QUOTE]

When dh and I got married, there wasn't such a thing as a bank debit card. Yep, I'm dating myself here...he lived at home and didn't have a checking account. When we went to go for a mortgage, he had no credit rating. Although we had the 20% for the downpayment, the bank only looked at my credit rating. And sorry, Dave Ramsey, there was no way we could have bought a house for cash unless we bought one in a horrible neighborhood.

[maat55]

[QUOTE=rob62521;171900]

Actually, that is how some people think - that they have to have a credit card for such things. I have not had a credit card in over 7 years and book all my travel online and travel frequently. I book flights, hotels and even rental cars with my bank debit card and have no trouble what so ever.

QUOTE]

When dh and I got married, there wasn't such a thing as a bank debit card. Yep, I'm dating myself here...he lived at home and didn't have a checking account. When we went to go for a mortgage, he had no credit rating. Although we had the 20% for the downpayment, the bank only looked at my credit rating. And sorry, Dave Ramsey, there was no way we could have bought a house for cash unless we bought one in a horrible neighborhood.

It is entirely possible to live on much less than you make and save cash for a starter home and move up periodically. Because people today are so, I want it now, they can't concieve the notion. I have a mortgage only because my wife is one of those people.

Up until the 50's and 60's, few people had mortgages.

[rob62521]

That's true, so many folks are really into the instant gratification. We bought a decent house the first time, worked on getting some equity into and fixed it up. We sold it after 8 years and bought a little smaller house, but it was a ranch so it was more expensive. We have it paid off and are working on fixing it up. Both times the bank, when they extended the mortgage, asked if we wanted to borrow more than we did. That, I think is also part (or was) the problem...people borrow more than they will ever pay back.

[disneysteve]

people borrow more than they will ever pay back.

Lots of people are of the mindset that they will never be debt-free - they will always have a mortgage, they will always have a car loan or two. They just count that as a fact of life. And it isn't just the younger generation as the percentage of retirees who still have mortgages has been steadily rising (look at 85 year old Ed McMahon and his foreclosure problems). With that mindset, they just borrow as much as they can while still affording the monthly payments. Or as soon as they pay off one car, they trade it in for another. A coworker of mine just said this the other day. She has 30,000 miles on her car. There is nothing at all wrong with the car. She just wants a different car. "As soon as it's paid off I'm getting something else" were her exact words. At least she isn't getting rid of it now and rolling this loan into the next (though she has considered that).

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Maat, sorry to be a downer, but I bought a 500 sq ft 1 bedroom condo first time for $150k. So DH and I weren't trying to OVERBUY.

Please tell me how to save $150k for a 1 bd condo and then saving to buy cash $600k for a home?

Please enlighten me? It's not that I want a mortgage, give me $600k cash and I'll happy not have a mortgage. BUT reality is that in some areas how long are you going to be saving for?

Also I live in a townhouse now! So it's not like I'm being whiny and "I want it now!" I'm trying to save and move up from a condo to townhouse and MAYBE one day a single family home!

I started in a "starter home" condo, sorry it wasn't exactly big enough to even start a family! But please tell me what to do better? Most of the people living in my area aren't buying SFH first time out, unaffordable. So what should we do? Please?

You never hear calls to Dave Ramsey from expensive COLAs. because he probably screens them out. It would be horrible to tell a family making $120k and $100k savings, to keep saving another 30 years until they can afford a $500k starter single family home, hmm?

[readytorock]

I read a lot about their shows in this thread, where would I find their shows? Channels/websites/times? Thanks!

[myrdale]

Readytorock, Dave's radio broadcast can be found at: Real Debt Help - Get out of debt with Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover Plan.

I am turning into a huge Dave fan, and I try to listen to his program daily.

I was turned off by Suze with in the first 5 minutes of watching her show. I am aware this a family board, so I will not spell it out, but the way she has her name displayed across the front of her desk spells out a very bad 4 letter word. Look for it the next time you watch her.

[disneysteve]

the way she has her name displayed across the front of her desk spells out a very bad 4 letter word. Look for it the next time you watch her.

I've watched her show many times. The only thing I've seen spelled out on the desk is SUZE. I'm not sure what bad word you can make from those letters. I'm assuming you mean it somehow looks like some other word. Can't say that I've ever noticed.

[readytorock]

Thanks myrdale!

[myrdale]

The bottom half of the S is faded / blocked by the info box making it look alot like a C. The Z is turned on its side forming an N. The E is turned on the side with the background such as to make it look like another letter. More specifically one that comes between the letters S and U. Oh, her U is just fine.

Yeah I may be paranoid, but look and you will see it from here on out. I can't help but not believe all the set designers and others never noticed!

[maat55]

Maat, sorry to be a downer, but I bought a 500 sq ft 1 bedroom condo first time for $150k. So DH and I weren't trying to OVERBUY.

Please tell me how to save $150k for a 1 bd condo and then saving to buy cash $600k for a home?

Please enlighten me? It's not that I want a mortgage, give me $600k cash and I'll happy not have a mortgage. BUT reality is that in some areas how long are you going to be saving for?

Also I live in a townhouse now! So it's not like I'm being whiny and "I want it now!" I'm trying to save and move up from a condo to townhouse and MAYBE one day a single family home!

I started in a "starter home" condo, sorry it wasn't exactly big enough to even start a family! But please tell me what to do better? Most of the people living in my area aren't buying SFH first time out, unaffordable. So what should we do? Please?

You never hear calls to Dave Ramsey from expensive COLAs. because he probably screens them out. It would be horrible to tell a family making $120k and $100k savings, to keep saving another 30 years until they can afford a $500k starter single family home, hmm?

I'm assuming you have an income that is worthy of a 600k home. You could live with relatives and save the money, you could rent a cheap garage apartment and save the money. Point is, if it was your heartfelt desire to do this, you would find a way. I'm not saying that it is stupid not to do this, you are the one criticizing Dave for offering it as an option. It is an option, no one said it was for you.

[cschin4]

Dave was on a pretty good rant yesterday about "stop being a victim" and so forth. While I agree with parts of what he was saying, just changing your life, your job, where you live, etc takes time and money as well. He was saying "ride a bicycle" as a solution to high gas prices. Um, yeah. How many people even live within cycling distance of work? And, it is a bit difficult to to transport my 3 kids on the back of my bicycle to daycare on the way to work. We do not live in a rural society of small towns where we all live 3 blocks from work. Maybe eventually life will return in that direction but not now and that leaves plenty of people out in the cold. He says "sell your house" and move closer to work. Well, if everyone else is doing so, then the housing prices in the stix also drop dramatically as the in home town prices rise making in unfeasible for alot of people. If you are a single person you probably have much more mobility under these circumstances.
Anyway, I find his answers very simplistic and bordering on offensive in that the problems are not so easily solved as snapping your fingers.