Are we stupid for being conservative and responsible?

**gackle** · 01-24-2008, 08:42 PM

Most people are getting rebates. Of the people that are getting rebates, you have the fiscally responsible and the fiscally irresponsible. I'd rather be fiscally responsible and getting money than be fiscally irresponsible and getting money. In the end the responsible will do the right thing with the money they receive and the irresponsible will continue with their bad habits. The system will eventually catch up with them. The good guys always win, even in Hollywood.

**Taribor** · 01-24-2008, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by gackle View Post

Most people are getting rebates. Of the people that are getting rebates, you have the fiscally responsible and the fiscally irresponsible. I'd rather be fiscally responsible and getting money than be fiscally irresponsible and getting money. In the end the responsible will do the right thing with the money they receive and the irresponsible will continue with their bad habits. The system will eventually catch up with them. The good guys always win, even in Hollywood.

Exactly, I agree.

The irresponsible ones (NOT the people who really use it for rent and day to day living, those I respect) will blow through it and be back to square one within a few weeks with nothing to show for it, which unfortunately is exactly what the government wants. I for one do not play their game as I will have more fun watching my $1500 for me/wife/child grow over the next 20 years in a mutual fund, than I would dumping it at the mall.

**sweeps** · 01-25-2008, 03:10 AM

Actually my comment wasn't just about the rebates. It's about the bailouts and the emergency rate cuts and the forced mortgage contract rewrites -- all those things that the govt does to reward irresponsible behavior.

**aida2003** · 01-25-2008, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by sweeps View Post

Actually my comment wasn't just about the rebates. It's about the bailouts and the emergency rate cuts and the forced mortgage contract rewrites -- all those things that the govt does to reward irresponsible behavior.

That's what I thought you were referring to

. Yes, I'm VERY disappointed. It seems like bad parenting to me: a child makes a stupid mistake, parents don't pay attention. Then that child makes a worse mistake, parents bail him/her out and the next time again,...and again. After a couple of bail outs and the child will continue to make the same and worse mistakes just because (s)he knows there'll be another help on the way. I disagree and I do hope we'll manage to raise our children responsible.

If I think more about it, it makes me mad because we, responsible savers/investors planning for retirement in advance, will be taxed much more in the future in order to help the irresponsible ones who could have saved as well but instead they constantly blow their money on new gadgets or whatever now.

**cschin4** · 01-25-2008, 05:11 AM

Yes, we who are responsible are STUPID! And, in fact, the govt is going to find a way to take what you have earned and saved. We have one victim parade after another with their hands out and then are scolded for our lace of "compassion". The govt maintains its power by keeping as many people as possible dependent on them. So, the more people that need a handout, the better for them and the consolidation of their power.
So, what are the frugal and responsible to do? There is really nothing that you can do except live your life on your principles and hope for the best.

**rob62521** · 01-25-2008, 05:13 AM

This is an interesting topic because dh and I were just discussing this -- those of us who live below our means and put money in savings and such are being hurt while those who spend everything and then some are "helped" out -- so I would say we are probably stupid. But then again, I wouldn't want to worry about debt all the time either.

**Broken Arrow** · 01-25-2008, 05:14 AM

In my personal opinion, I believe the government is worried about the macro-level impact of our flagging consumer economy. The economy is already taking a dive, and right now, they are just scrambling to minimize the damage.

Sadly, I don't think they are specifically concerned with bailing out individual citizens... though I'm sure they're not turning down the political boon that can be reaped from this. So, while it may SEEM like the government is aiding irresponsible behavior... well, I don't think that's their main focus. I think it's just a side benefit that happens to be politically convenient.

Hopefully, our government will implement plans-- sooner rather than later-- to actually turn our economic ship around, rather than just avoid crashing it into the rocks.

**jIM_Ohio** · 01-25-2008, 06:26 AM

There are two issues

1) the government encouraged the banks to take risks by not making laws against it
2) the government will be held accountable for any recession which happens, and the stance of the fed is that it's better to prevent a recession (like what Japan recently went through) than to try and dig out of it.

One person's stupidity is another person's job security.

**bjl584** · 01-25-2008, 06:39 AM

Everyday I leave my house for work, and my neighbor's cars remain in the driveway. Every evening I return home to find my neighbors sitting on their deck. In fact, they have not worked since I have lived there, which is just over 3 years. They collect public assistance (I know this for a fact since they told me and seemed proud of it). I often ask myself, why do I bother working so hard and going to school? My neighbors have a house, cars, everything that I do, and they live a life of leisure. Why should I worry about work, saving, investing, education? But, then I realize that while on the surface it would seem that I am the "stupid" one, reality I'm sure is quite a different picture. My neighbors have no savings, no equity in their house, no plans for the future, no real goals, probably a lot of debt. So, I will take being responsible and conservative even if it does make me seem "stupid." The government can only bail people out so much, then it is up to the individual to do something with their life.

**FrugalFish** · 01-25-2008, 07:42 AM

This reminds me of an interview I saw with Larry Wingut a few months ago. He says we don't have money problems in this country, we have integrity problems. I think he is so, so painfully right. People have gotten so narcissistic and driven by a sense of entitlement that their priorities are completely messed up.

I think his point was that for those of us who are responsible and live by a code of ethics- doing our best to pay bills on time, have our priorities in order, and not expect handouts- well, at least we can sleep well at night.

I just got an email this morning from an old friend (who's an overbearing, thoughtless braggart) who happens to be a mortgage broker in one of the worst markets for unscrupulous lending in the country. She was bragging about the trip she earned by closing over $1B in loans last year. I wonder if she ever allows herself to think about all the people who really can't afford the loans she sold them. Culpability on both ends, I suppose. *sigh*

**PrincessPerky** · 01-25-2008, 08:04 AM

I love a collection of books about Honor Harrington..The part of the books that pertains to this discussion is the 'bad guy' government...the Peoples Republic of Haven..they have a HUGE welfare population, and they must constantly make war to drain nearby star systems reserves to pay the 'dole' that the folk always want raised.

Of course the USof A isn't waging war to raise the Dole..we get to do it on credit...

I lack that compassion for all those folks with hands out...so long as they have access to food and shelter and basic medical care (and I do mean basic, no cable TV is not needed for a simple birth) I see no reason to fund their bad habits, junk food addictions, fancy clothes (or not so fancy, really how many pairs of pants do you need?)

The original question of am I stupid to be managing our money...maybe, but I would rather be stupid and honest, than anything else. I don't own the world, I don't need to parent it, and honestly I prolly will never change it no matter how much I would like to. I can however teach my own and raise them to do the right thing regardless.

**Gruntina** · 01-25-2008, 08:56 AM

I have mixed feelings and can go either way on this.

I was once a very irresponsible person with my money, at that time I was not really aware how irresponsible I was until I had my wake-up call.

It�s funny now because with the knowledge I learned from this site and years practicing this knowledge by putting them into action of my financial well being, I am definably better off and a little wiser now. I still do recall how I thought saving money was impossible and the thought of living without worrying about your bills getting paid every time was something that was within out of my reach so I then had no hope.

I just try to remember that though with all the changes/struggles I have been through to make me who I am today and try not to forget my past and belittle those who are not good with their money since I used to be one of them.

Sometimes this feels like siblings complaining that the other one got a bigger piece of cake.

I am not sure how it can be resolved with how to distribute the money to the right people though... It would be
hard to tell how the situation really is from what it appears to be.

**poundwise** · 01-25-2008, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by FrugalFish View Post

This reminds me of an interview I saw with Larry Wingut a few months ago. He says we don't have money problems in this country, we have integrity problems. I think he is so, so painfully right. People have gotten so narcissistic and driven by a sense of entitlement that their priorities are completely messed up.

I think his point was that for those of us who are responsible and live by a code of ethics- doing our best to pay bills on time, have our priorities in order, and not expect handouts- well, at least we can sleep well at night.

Excellent comments.

"This above all; to thine own self be true" - William Shakespeare (Hamlet)

**gackle** · 01-25-2008, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by bjl584

I often ask myself, why do I bother working so hard and going to school? My neighbors have a house, cars, everything that I do, and they live a life of leisure. Why should I worry about work, saving, investing, education? But, then I realize that while on the surface it would seem that I am the "stupid" one, reality I'm sure is quite a different picture. My neighbors have no savings, no equity in their house, no plans for the future, no real goals, probably a lot of debt. So, I will take being responsible and conservative even if it does make me seem "stupid." The government can only bail people out so much, then it is up to the individual to do something with their life.

= SELF WORTH

Being conservative and responsible with our money may not pay off in the short run, but in the long run it is the only safe way to go. Like somebody said earlier, the government may be here this time (maybe because an election is coming up?), but that won't guarantee that it'll be here the next tme or ever again. Playing it safe is the only guarantee that you won't get in trouble with your finances.

Are we stupid for being conservative and responsible?