Best value for laptop?

[Broken Arrow]

Ask any computer programmer. If you stick with the origina software on a Thinkpad then you are fine, but if you try to even do simple stuff like upgrade drivers, or do any sort of hardcore software development, it's like hitting a brick wall.

IBM does not design their laptops to be customizable beyond the general business needs. Technical people will tend to stay away from IBMs.

Ah, I think I get what you mean now. I don't disagree, but to be fair, I don't think this issue is limited to just Thinkpads either. For example, several laptop manufacturers could use the same (off) brand of WiFi card or chip, but if that manufacturer doesn't offer good drivers and support, then any issue resulting from it would affect all laptops with that hardware, regardless of the brand.

A more dramatic example of this can be seen from the fiery Sony battery fiasco.

[DramaQueenLucy]

I don't know much about laptops but I have a HP that I love got it last BF @ CompUSA before that I had another HP lappy that is still kicking 6 years later..DS10 now has that one.

I saw that you are looking for MS Office and thought that this deal may interest you.

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[InDebtInDC]

Ah, I think I get what you mean now. I don't disagree, but to be fair, I don't think this issue is limited to just Thinkpads either. For example, several laptop manufacturers could use the same (off) brand of WiFi card or chip, but if that manufacturer doesn't offer good drivers and support, then any issue resulting from it would affect all laptops with that hardware, regardless of the brand.

A more dramatic example of this can be seen from the fiery Sony battery fiasco.

I agree, but every Dell I've picked up has worked flawlessly however I configured them.

I've had the most frustration with IBMs, as well as many other brands. IBM just sticks out because this issue is the only thing that turns me away from them. If they worked flawlessly like the Dell then I would without a doubt use IBMs all the time.

My worst experience was spending a whole weekend preparing 15 Thinkpads for a synchronized demo. That experience turned me off for life. Imagine fixing wireless driver errors, graphics, sound on top of rehearsing timing X 15 laptops.

I know that if they were Dell it would have taken me 5 minutes apiece. I never used IBM after that. Unless there are some new changes lately I'm still turned off by them.

[Broken Arrow]

Interesting. It could be because the components in your Dell just turned out to have better support.... Ironic actually, because Dell of all manufacturers are the most notorious in selecting and using off-brands components in order to cut cost.

On the other hand, perhaps there IS something more to this than simply hardware selection and driver maturity. Or perhaps that Thinkpad components really are that bad. This is something I will definitely keep in mind when I select my next laptop....

I admit though, I usually check the (Linux / BSD) compatibility list first on the laptops I'm interested in before I buy it. So, by the time I do buy it, I already know it's compatible with the OS and the drivers that I want to install. However, I also realize that my situation is far different from yours since I'm a personal enthusiast, whereas the issues you faced is from a corporate scenario....

[InDebtInDC]

Also, from a support point of view, I know if there's an IBM coming in for work, it will take all day to figure it out. If it's a Dell I can probably squeeze it out within the hour with no problem.

There are companies that use Thinkpads religiously, and their support staff just swap out the hard drive into a new unit and sends the old one back to the manufacturer. They don't even bother spending time troubleshooting, but to be fair that could also be due to cost.