Imposing a European gas tax in the US

[shelbylovesmelby]

Did any of you see this article this morning??? What is your opinion on such a tax??

Yahoo! Personal Finance

[lgslgs]

"It could also go towards improvements in mass transit, expanded student loans or lower health insurance premiums."

This would be a real mess in Appalachia (where I live.) People here have to drive long distances to get to "the good jobs" that pay $9-$14 per hour - and any jobs over $12 per hour are few and far between. And gas here went up to $3.49 yesterday afternoon.

A gas tax isn't going to ever bring public transportation to this area. Breaks on student lone rates or health insurance rates aren't ever going to be enough to help folks around here if they keep getting poorer and poorer as they drive to work.

That sort of plan will hit our local folks hard, and the benefits will go to people who live in cities and suburbs.

Personally, I like the idea of gas prices go so high that people really cut back on driving. But the reality around here is that most folks have already cut back hard and with local wages and prices on everything rising people are getting poorer fast. Meanwhile non-rural middle and upper class keep burning through gas like money is no object. Adding more tax on top of current prices would bankrupt families around here.

[JanH]

A problem with me would be wondering if we could get the powers that be to actually do what they say they will do with the money. They waste so much for things I don't understand that I wonder if we would get the benefits we are promised. Interesting debate.

[poundwise]

No way.

Start using the current tax money (from all sources and for all intended purposes) properly rather than claiming that more tax money will solve the problem.

I despise politicians, and am not too fond of the people who are ignorant enough to believe them, who tell us that more money is what is needed (for the economy, for the environment, for health care, for education) while they are yet so incredibly wasteful and manage the budget so poorly.

As things currently stand, I don't see supporting any additional taxes for any purpose. Even if they say it is needed to stop kitten abuse.

[autoxer]

[the optimist] Maybe a big gas tax will get some SUV's off the road.

[bigsaver]

If a gas tax got the SUVs off the road, that would be a miracle.

[poundwise]

I nominate a bazooka for the job.

[jmjj215]

No way.

Start using the current tax money (from all sources and for all intended purposes) properly rather than claiming that more tax money will solve the problem.

I despise politicians, and am not too fond of the people who are ignorant enough to believe them, who tell us that more money is what is needed (for the economy, for the environment, for health care, for education) while they are yet so incredibly wasteful and manage the budget so poorly.

As things currently stand, I don't see supporting any additional taxes for any purpose. Even if they say it is needed to stop kitten abuse.

PW, you are absolutely right on with this. Prove to me you can manage what you already have, and then try and tell me why you need more money in the first place.

I'm opposed to any and every tax hike. And IMO, the only good tax plan is one that lowers taxes. Period.

[cschin4]

Why are we so bent in modeling the Europeans? They should be modeling us and asking for lower taxes. If I wanted to live in Europe I would move there. Our country is completely different than theirs. You could fit most of their countries into one of our states. This is a big, expansive country and their way of life won't fly here, nor would I want it to. We need energy for transportation plain and simple. Many people live miles and hours from their jobs. Jacking up gas to ridiculous levels is going to destroy people's lives. They can't just pick up and move the next day. The whole thing is an overblown "crisis" meant to gain political control. There is plenty of oil to be had but the environmentalists have destroyed the nation's ability to care for itself. The problem is not dependence on foreign oil. The problem is weak willed politicians that have been kowtowing for years and years to environmental groups that block any efforts to secure any forms of energy other than the idiotic windmills. And, if we try to use those on a mass scale, they will discover that some birds ran into one and died, so those will then be turned off and torn down.
We should pump and pump all the oil we can get. Use it until it is gone.

[autoxer]

Why should we model the Europeans?

The article on fuel economy is here: http://www.pewclimate.org/document.cfm?documentID=412

Jacking up gas prices isn't going to destroy peoples lives. They will just get more efficient vehicles. If you double the efficiency & double the price of gas, then it won't cost any more to get to work. The fact that this is a big expansive country is an even better reason to focus on fuel efficiency.

We should pump and pump all the oil we can get. Use it until it is gone.

I'm really not much of an environmentalist, but what do you think is going to happen to the cost of transportation energy when we run out of oil?

[mom-from-missouri]

Don't knock all the SUV's

If a gas tax got the SUVs off the road, that would be a miracle.

I usually drive my Aveo, at 37 mpg on the highway. But when I drive my SUV, I HAVE to drive my SUV. Sometimes we don't have a choice. I can't pull a hay trailer with my Aveo, nor can I fit all my kids into the pickup. I can get all the kids in my Chevy Suburban and pull the hay trailer.
I got called a gas hog last week by a man at the gas station. I was on the way to the other farm to meet my husband so I could pull back a trailer. Does he know this? No, he just assumes I am a gas hog-name calls without knowing his facts....

I also drove it last week for a field trip to the park, because I could get 7 kids in it, and pull the schools trailer that had the sports equipment and BBQ grills & coolers in it. I was the only mom who knew how to back up a trailer and only 2 of us even had a receiver and hitch.

My SUV has a purpose. Yet, I see all these other people with them on the road, and I wonder what their is used for, and why they even have it. Like the other mom who had one on the field trip. She had a hitch, but said she was not comfortable pulling the trailer. Someone asked her why she had her hitch on, and she said "it came that way when they bought it". They have no boat, no trailer...So, why do they need it???? Status symbol I guess. Looks cooler than a mini van?????

Seems like a tax would penalize all. Wish they could just put a tax on people who cruise to cruise, people who drive over sized vehicles they don't need. Doesn't seem fair to also hit the farmers, or those with larger families, or who need their "gas hogs" for work related reasons.

[tinapbeana]

oh, i'm so gonna catch flack for this, but oh well, this is a discussion on hypotheticals... i bet rations would work.

[autoxer]

But when I drive my SUV, I HAVE to drive my SUV. Sometimes we don't have a choice. I can't pull a hay trailer with my Aveo, nor can I fit all my kids into the pickup. I can get all the kids in my Chevy Suburban and pull the hay trailer.

Did you choose to have a larger family? Did you choose to be a farmer?

I choose to be in the manufacturing industry, and the price of gas affects every industry where product shipping is involved. That's just part of the cost of doing business...

I got called a gas hog last week by a man at the gas station. I was on the way to the other farm to meet my husband so I could pull back a trailer. Does he know this? No, he just assumes I am a gas hog-name calls without knowing his facts....

If the suburban is pulling a trailer, isn't it still a gas hog?

I'm not really for or against a larger gas tax, because I don't know what kind of effect it would truly have, but I don't think it would be as bad as some people make it out to be. I'm just trying to see it from a different perspective.

[mom-from-missouri]

I guess all of us who chose to farm can quit--then how will those of you in the manufacturing industry eat???

I also watch 2 children besides my own who were with me. So I guess all of us who chose to provide childcare can quit, then how will those of you in the manufacturing industry who have young children still manage to work??

Gas prices effect EVERYONE. It even makes your phone bill go up because the phone company has to pay higher rates to roll their trucks.

True, there are more effecient vehicles on the road. They tend to cost much more. Most are new, so they are harder to find used in a price range that people can afford.

2 businesses in our area have already closed their doors this past year because of fuel prices. Our local pharmacy even stopped delivering prescriptions last week. Rumor in town is that the little pizza delivery place is also possibly going out. (that will leave this town with only 1 place to eat) So it does effect everyone one way or another.

What a boring and unefficent world this would be if everyone chose to be the same.
If you are going to knock the farmer, don't talk with your mouth full or with cotton clothes on your back.

[humandraydel]

Gas prices effect EVERYONE. It even makes your phone bill go up because the phone company has to pay higher rates to roll their trucks.

Don't forget, it makes FOOD prices go up! An enormous amount of oil and gas is used in our food production system - in the farming, packaging, and delivery systems. And with both grocery stores and farmers operating on razor thin margins, those higher production costs WILL get passed on in higher prices. Hello inflation!!

There are better methods than inflation producing gas taxes to accomplish the tasks:

Drastically increase the use of clean diesel engines in the US.
Provide incentives to research, develop, and PRODUCE biodiesel.
Institute a luxury tax on SUV purchases unless you can prove you NEED it.
Increase the minimum fuel efficiency significantly.
Provide tax credits for fuel-efficiency related R&D expenses for auto makers.
Require emissions checks in every large city in the country (the fee for this typically generates additional revenue above and behind the cost of running the program).

All of these things together would go far in creating a fairly painless, revenue neutral way of addressing some fuel consumption issues.