A few more symptoms of a broken system

[34saving]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

I'm all in favor of people taking responsibilty for their healthcare and I've definitely been known to say "no". (Of course not taking the time for a glucose screening will definitely get you "in trouble" if you ever see anybody but your own doc!) However, doctors (or somebody) have to be more proactive too. Take my original examples in a different light: If doctor #1 who couldn't find the heartbeat said something like "I'm having a tough time with this doppler, so I'm going to let doctor x take a listen" that would have been fine with me. As it was, I wasn't really in an emotional state of mind to ask "is an ultrasound really necessary?"

The ambulance problem wasn't about not having a ride, it was about not being able to sit/move. Unknown to us at the time, the perocet would have made dh temporarily ambulatory, but he wasn't even allowed to talk to a doctor, much less get a prescription from one. That, to me, seems like a flaw in the system.

Now grandma is a smart cookie, but in her generation (at least her version of it) you don't question your doctors. Moreover, if a doctor listens to your heart then calls an ambulance, how many of us would say "no, I'm pretty sure I'm not having a heart attack, I'll just head on home". However, if that same doctor looked at grandma's charts and asked her some questions . . .

Also keep in mind that we're kind of an above average group on this board. . . .

[disneysteve]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

I wonder if ther is a concentration of that 'rare breed' here...

I think so, just as there is an abundance of savers and folks who pay their CC bill in full each month. I don't think the people here are a representative sample of the population in general.

[Scanner]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

Joan of Arc,

I agree with my medical counterpart in that I think you are rare. I think DisneySteve hit it - "I took off of work here - you aren't going to give me a prescription?"

I mean what I say about feeling pretty beat by the pharmaceutical companies. My profession of chiropractic is constantly talking about getting limited powers of prescribing drugs - pain releivers, muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories, even if for 5 days.

The problem is (and forget about the politics of that) - the people opposed to it in my profession actually have a point -

"Gee, Dr. Scanner, how about I just get the muscle relaxer and we skip the home exercises, spinal adjustments and lifestyle changes?"

I know it will happen.

I'd have to raise my cantankerness about 10 fold, LOL.

So anyway, have basically figured - if you can't beat them, why not join them?

Anyway, I am only focusing on one small point of how the system is broken. I think better rationing of healthcare during endstages of life could be done too - that's where a lot of the expense is wrapped up. Make hard decisions -

Do we want to keep Terry Schiavo's alive or pay for 1000 children in community asthma programs? Perhaps. . .just perhaps (and I know I am going to offend the Rush Limbaugh's here, LOL). . .maybe we need to start thinking a little socialistically.

And also, let's face it - the reason why American health care is so expensive is that it is so good. If you want cheap, take advantage of medical tourism and have your hip replacement done in India/made in India.

There's something for the Frugal Board, LOL.

[kealina]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

me and my had-mild-scarlet-fever-and-didn't-tell-my-mom-i-was-sick-so-i-could-get-perfect-attendance-at-school past will now bow out of the healthcare frucus

haha... i was that kid!... except my mom knew i was sick and sent me to school anyways... lol...

[QUOTE=disneysteve]I think so, just as there is an abundance of savers and folks who pay their CC bill in full each month. I don't think the people here are a representative sample of the population in general.[/QUOTE

yeah, i guess that's why we all feel so at home here... i'm glad to to be a part of this "anomoly" lol...

[PrincessPerky]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

To defend 34saving, sometimes arguing is easier when not sick...and way easier when a dr isn't scaring you about your baby while pregnant!

Which is why I am skipping the Dr entirely if I can...no offense intended to medical proffessionals here.

[cicy33]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

While I am also not a drug taking person, when I feel sick enough to finally go to the doctor I obviously don't have the medical knowledge to know what is wrong with me. I don't go often and usually I am in pretty bad shape when I do. But I rely on the doctor, male or female, who went to college and got educated to be the one who knows what I need. Why should I automatically know what I do and don't need?? Sure I can argue and say but are you sure?? to the doctor but then he or she will say, Yes. Then what? I have no medical knowledge to back up what I question. I truly have no idea. HELLO!!! that is why I went to a doctor. Now, I am aware there are people that abuse the situation but to say that america is health care spoiled is ridiculous. There are sooo many people who do not have health care. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority have none. I just recently got health care and I am almost 40. I just don't feel that it is as simple as take control of your health. Sure there are things that we can do but sometimes you just gotta take the doctor's word for it. If you don't believe that then why on earth do we require more than 8 years of education? Matter of fact I am going to the doctor today, I am on day 3 of can't breathe, and feel like a Mack truck hit my face, ears are killing me and I am pretty sure I have a sinus infection. could be wrong, but will find out.

[Scanner]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

Now, I am aware there are people that abuse the situation but to say that america is health care spoiled is ridiculous. There are sooo many people who do not have health care. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority have none. I just recently got health care and I am almost 40.

Before that, you wrote:

While I am also not a drug taking person, when I feel sick enough to finally go to the doctor I obviously don't have the medical knowledge to know what is wrong with me. I don't go often and usually I am in pretty bad shape when I do

Not to pick on you but that's exactly the mindset DisneySteve and I are talking about.

I probably see it more in my line of work.

Person-at-a-Party: "You're a chiropractor? Wow! I really need you. I have a really bad back. It really hurts when I exercise. Consequently, I haven't been to the gym in months. I've gained 20 pounds."

Scanner: "Why don't you come in and see me? I can probably knock it out quick and getcha back again."

Person-at-a-Party: "No, first, I got to go get on some insurance."

Translation: I don't want to pay for it myself. Somebody else should and I should just wait for that day.

Never mind, all total cost may be $300-500 by the time, I'm done - it's a virtually sin in America to not have Blue Cross or Medicare or Aetna pay your way.

While this probably flies at the Frugal Forum, skimping on seeing the doctor, I think this mindset, partially, is one of the problems with healthcare and why you have seen costs spiral out of control.

Let me contrast this with the Pennsylvania Amish. They have no insurance, but often, when one of their own is sick, they go into the local hospital and lay down cash, with discount for the services and paying for a procedure up front.

They don't see it as a sin to pay the doctor/hospital. In fact, the mindset is it is just expected.

Do you see what I am getting at?

Really, the mindset is so deeply entrenched in America, you probably all think I'm nuts.

[disneysteve]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

I am aware there are people that abuse the situation but to say that america is health care spoiled is ridiculous. There are sooo many people who do not have health care. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority have none.

Are you saying you think the vast majority of Americans don't have health insurance? If so, that's quite untrue. According to the Census Bureau, in 2005, 15.9% of Americans lacked coverage, meaning 84.1% DID have coverage. So the "vast majority" are insured.

Are they spoiled? I think a great many of them are based on personal experience. Part of the problem is advertising. Part of the problem is the payment system. Part of the problem is that we happen to have really fine healthcare in this country and everybody wants the best we have to offer. Part of the problem is the media/tv/movies/etc. Nobody wants to hear that something isn't necessary or that we should try a more conservative approach first or that we'll give it some time first and then do the fancy tests if it isn't better.

I realize (from the doctor side and the patient side) that when you are sick or hurting, you want to be better as quickly as possible, and I respect that. But doing the million dollar work-up for an ingrown toenail isn't better medicine. It's just more expensive medicine. If you strained your back shoveling snow yesterday, you don't need an MRI today. What you need is a couple of Advil and a heating pad (or maybe a visit to the chiropractor). I think we see the same problems in medicine that we see in the consumer society. People want to have it all and they want it all now. They don't care what it costs, especially when they aren't the ones paying for it. And those same people will be the first to gripe about how much their premiums have gone up. They don't seem to connect wasteful testing and overuse of resources with the price they pay for their coverage.

[tinapbeana]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

scanner, i think the point most of us "i don't go to the doctor" people are trying to make is not one about insurance.

personally, the reason i don't go to the doctor has nothing to do with insurance. it has everything to do with the fact that i believe we live in a (mostly) over medicated, hyper aware, super sanitized nation where 9 times out of 10 if you sneeze or sniffle someone will ask "what are you taking?". and that's not just health care professionals, that's friends and family, too.

i've had consistent medical coverage the past 4 years and i haven't used it once, although i have had colds, hay fever, sore throats, and an upper respiratory infection during that time. i didn't go to the doctor because of insurance or lack thereof, i went because i didn't feel it was necessary. had the symptoms progressed, then of course i would have gone. but i would have done the same whether i had insurance or not.

for me, i keep insurance for the biggies: cancer, accidents, disability, broken bones, genetic disorder, etc. colds, flues, and the like i can usually take care of myself.

[disneysteve]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

scanner, i think the point most of us "i don't go to the doctor" people are trying to make is not one about insurance.

personally, the reason i don't go to the doctor has nothing to do with insurance. it has everything to do with the fact that i believe we live in a (mostly) over medicated, hyper aware, super sanitized nation where 9 times out of 10 if you sneeze or sniffle someone will ask "what are you taking?". and that's not just health care professionals, that's friends and family, too.

I agree completely. People want a pill for everything. And it's got to be a prescription pill. Just today, I saw 3 patients (2 adults and 1 child) who were in for basically a common cold. None had been sick for more than 24 hours. None had attempted any home treatment. They'd rather come see me then go to the store and buy some NyQuil (which is what I do when I've got a cold).

[tinapbeana]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

I agree completely. People want a pill for everything. And it's got to be a prescription pill. Just today, I saw 3 patients (2 adults and 1 child) who were in for basically a common cold. None had been sick for more than 24 hours. None had attempted any home treatment. They'd rather come see me then go to the store and buy some NyQuil (which is what I do when I've got a cold).

hehehehe! when i feel something coming on, i drink a quart of orange juice, 2 hot totties, and sleep for 10-12 hours. if that doesn't take care of it, i call in sick

[vsjhoc]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

For the record, I am a DO, not an MD.

What's a DO?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

D.O.--that would be doctor of osteopathic medicine. We once had two osteopathic hosptials in my area. Now down to just one, I think. In addition D.O.s are on staff at other hospitals. Try it, you'll like it! a little testimony for disneysteve's profession.

[Scanner]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

DC's like DO's too! They are usually openminded to complementary and drugless health care (one could argue if chiropractic is alternative anymore). All of my family doctor referrals come from DO's and nurse practicioners.

The radiology group I may be joining is headed by a DO and personally, I think that has something to do with why he's giving me a chance (although the interventional radiologist is so desperate for help, I think they'd take a witch doctor).

[disneysteve]

Re: A few more symptoms of a broken system

What's a DO?

http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=ado_whatis