When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

[Cheetahwoman7]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

As far as the 7 hours teachers work a day you have a lunch hour in that 7 hours as well as most disticts allow 1 hour during the day for grading papers as well as going over lesson plans. If the teachers choose to use that time for relaxing and taking breaks. That is 5 to 51/2 hours fo actual class time. I dont feel sorry that they have to grade at home. I worked in the school system for years and have seen first hand the wasted time that goes on. as far as having your pay spread out over 12 months you a still making the money in 9 months that most people make in 12 months so I dont feel bad because you have to spread your 9 month income over 12 months like everyone else in the community. Also many teachers work full time jobs during the summer to inhance there income and take away jobs from people would dont have any other form of income.

I do not know what school system you worked for that you know all this stuff "first hand" because it's not where I'm working! We don't get an hour of paid time to correct papers at the grade school level. By the way, it's called "prep time". That's reserved for teachers who teach several periods or classes in a day, usually on the same subject, in middle school or high school. Again, elementary school teachers don't have that option.

The contract I have states that teachers get 30 minutes duty free for lunch. If you ever look into the labor laws, you'll see that most people get paid 15 minutes off for every so many hours of work (like your morning and afternoon breaks) and a lunch break. Teachers don't get that either. And forget the fact that most of that 30 minutes duty free lunch goes out the window if we have to be on a rainy day schedule.

Now for you saying how teachers take away jobs from others during the summer....hmmmm, most teachers I know take summer school teaching jobs during the summer. Now who would that be taking jobs away from that don't have any other form of income??? Unemployed teachers?

And just cuz I'm sickly and in a grumpy mood, do you realize that teachers have to go to college a minimum of 5 years to get their credentials? They also have to continue studies so they can renew their credential every 5 years. If you're comparing the pay of a teacher, even if you were to use the 9 month/12 month basis to get a yearly pay, they make less than other college graduates who have the same numbers of years being educated! In addition to that, we get no extra perks like gas credit, company car, Holiday bonuses, company credit card, etc. And where is my holiday TURKEY or HAM that everyone else seems to get? We do, however, get some of the best germs in the world spread upon us, which mutate when they hit an adult body. What can make a kid somewhat sickly can knock an adult clear off their feet.

You want to learn what teaching is really like? Go volunteer at an underfunded, situated in a lower socioeconmic neighborhood (read POVERTY), having 95% second language learners type elementary school. That is TRULY where the rubber meets the road!

[lrjohnson]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Borrow the Hotel Rwanda DVD from the library and watch it this week. You'll see how much we really take for granted.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. Many of us who have thought of ourselves as poor, hungry, cold, tired, have really not experienced it the way many folks truly in poverty have. We have people in our country who may have grown up with unspeakable conditions, but in other countries the entire village or country may be unspeakable, and there's no place to run to.

A little more gratitude and a little less complaining is what I work for.

(Still not a fan of PITA.)

[sweeps]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

In our area (looking at the public records) teacher salaries vary pretty widely. Some teachers earn low 30's, others earn up in the 120's. I can attest to what cheetah is saying. I've considered a 2nd career as a teacher for a while. And the biggest reason why I've never done it is I would take a 60-70% pay cut starting out. I would have to make some serious sacrifices for that.

[asmom]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Sorry, I think it was the Aztecs, not the Incas I was referring to - although I don't know enough about the Incas, I think they also did these things.

If left to themselves, most if not all primitive cultures were violent and murderous.
The Hawaiians, the Romans, the Chinese, the Turks, etc. etc. etc.

That is what you get without the influence of Judeo/christianity.

History and the present times ....are my witness.

LMAO!!! WHERE did you learn your history? Ever heard of the crusades? Christian history is filled with violence. There has been more suffering and pain under the influence of Christianity than there is time to enumerate on this forum. You are giving us the best reason of all to support increased school spending if your education in history is an example of what the public schools are cranking out these days.

[Cheetahwoman7]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

If you're from California, (and you sound like it) you must know of all the old missions founded by the Jesuits, monks and priests for the benefit of the poor Mexicans and Indians. Some still stand today. They were founded by blood yes ...the blood of the missionaries!

Ok, I wasn't going to go here, but dang, it must be all the germies that are eating my body and brain alive.

I agree, the missions in California were founded by blood, but very little of that blood came from the missionaries. Most of the missions were built on large lots of land that required the Indians to provide free labor in the fields to feed the missionaries and their families. The missions themselves were built by the Indians, under the direction of the priests. So many Indians died, not just from the difficult labor, but from the diseases the missionaries brought with them, like small pox.

Get this, when an Indian would die, they would not be buried in the church cemetary even if they had already accepted the faith and been baptized. That was reserved, AGAIN, for the missionaries and their families. Once and awhile, a person of Mexican decent could be buried at the church, but only if they had converted, been baptized and DONATED $$$ or land to the church first.

The Mexicans were not poor, they were the main land owners in California at that time. They worked their "ranchos" and provided the economic basis for this area....agriculture!

The missions were NOT built to help the "poor Mexicans and Indians" or even really convert them to Christianity. They were built to help establish settlements so that the church could claim the land and the benefits it provided.

If you'd like to call me on this one, go ahead. I live 30 minutes from one of the missions and have taken so many of my classes to tour there. In addition, there is another mission just 40 minutes away. I have lived most of my life in this area, so I know both missions well. Do a bit of reseach and you'll see that things aren't always as benevelant and giving as they first appear in regards to the California missions.

[Cheetahwoman7]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

In our area (looking at the public records) teacher salaries vary pretty widely. Some teachers earn low 30's, others earn up in the 120's. I can attest to what cheetah is saying. I've considered a 2nd career as a teacher for a while. And the biggest reason why I've never done it is I would take a 60-70% pay cut starting out. I would have to make some serious sacrifices for that.

OH SWEEPS!!! Where the heck is that school district that pays $120K a year????? Our district hasn't given teachers a raise in 4 years!!! I would think that I had died and gone to heaven if I was making that kind of $$

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

LMAO!!! WHERE did you learn your history?

To be sure it wasn't in public school....

Ever heard of the crusades?

The crusades, the crusades the crusades. How many times are you going to beat that old drum? Do you really know anything about the crusades or why they were formed? They were first formed mainly in *self defense* to protect themselves and to take back their christian lands and Jerusalem from the Muslim invaders. The initiators of the violence. Later crusades seemed to lose track of their original purpose. That's the way it goes. Human error. Still, nothing compared to the violence of other non-christian wars. War is war. And that's what is was.

Now why don't you tell us what you really know about the crusades.

Christian history is filled with violence. There has been more suffering and pain under the influence of Christianity than there is time to enumerate on this forum.

Funny how people here like to make these wide sweeping statements without bothering to provide any details. Just mindlessly repeating some garbage they heard floating around... without any facts to back up their opinions.

To clarify, there's no doubt that the Reformation was an era of violence and mayhem. Only it was christians against christians. Dark times for sure.

[asmom]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Funny how people here like to make these wide sweeping statements without bothering to provide any details.
To clarify, there's no doubt that the Reformation was an era of violence and mayhem. Only it was christians against christians. Dark times for sure.

Like I said, there is not enough space and time to go into detail about all the history of violence by Christians. It's obvious that a closed mine will not accept a different point of view anyway. But from the Crusades. to the Inquisition to the Holocaust to the use of the Bible by Christians to justify everything form murder to slavery, history backs up everything I've written. It's called the truth.

[sweeps]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

OH SWEEPS!!! Where the heck is that school district that pays $120K a year????? Our district hasn't given teachers a raise in 4 years!!! I would think that I had died and gone to heaven if I was making that kind of $$

This isn't my particular district but it's in the general area: Link For further reference, here are the top 100 administrators' salaries. Note that I'm not endorsing the mission of that web site. I am 100% for paying excellent teachers (and excellent administrators for that matter) top salaries when deserved. All I ask for is full disclosure into how that salary was decided, just as I would expect for any public employee.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Appologies in advance, I wrote a loooong post, but I have been gone awhile and I wanted to reply to many different posts.

Suze,

You cannot be more disorganized or lazy than I am J, seriously, think about it, I do nothing important all day, but oh so many little things, no homework, no big projects, I cook, I clean, I teach, all in one. If you want a group, look! You have google at your fingertips! Don’t use it as an excuse. Also I’ll plug my own site (www.dimeed.com), while it is small, I can answer most questions on the young, and I can find you the answers for older kids, promise, the support is there if you ask for it.

Sarah,

Have you checked the literacy rates that schools are pumping out? The national average literacy rate is going down! We might just be better off not wasting out time!


LrJohnson,

I can find you those same examples and worse in a public school, private school, and inbeteween (charter schools, whatever). No matter the education choice there will be those parents that are failing miserably, no amount of tax supported day care will solve that, also I have always thought that schooling should be provided for reading, research (googling J.) and simple math, however it doesn’t take 12 years of imprisonment to teach those, and the first two give the ability for anyone to learn more as they see interest. I would rather have a workforce of literate, ‘taxmath’ cappable google searchers than a workforce of drones used to suffering thru class after class.

Paulette,

I went to private, public, and home-schooled, I do have some experience in a few different methods.

Rduell,

exactly! Money is not the answer!

Cheetah,

it sounds like you are a wonderful teacher truly doing your best for your students, and the government in their heart string pulling ‘we need money’ isn’t passing it along to you (and others like you who need it) it isn’t the fault of you and other good teachers, it is the system that is not designed to actually teach so much as assist. But is asked to do the job of so much more! Please know whenever I talk down on mass education it is the system I detest, not the dedicated teachers trying to succeed in spite of it. (In fact in my dream world we would still have non-parent teachers). Your point about everyone learning a different way is exactly why state controlled mass schooling is a bad idea, not only do people learn different, people TEACH different! True the best teachers are those that can ‘cross teach’ but not everyone is that wonderful, and why should I not teach just because I am not a lecturer?

Tina,

while I agree summer off is ridiculous, why would I want to take time off from learning! I hate to mention it for fear of even more money being pulled to school so they can baby-sit year round! Heavens if your kid is in school at least take the summer to learn the old fashioned way! They will be back to tests soon enough. (Wonder if 3 months is long enough to get out of the sit and stare rut anyway?)

Asmom,

why cant they be kids all year round~!!!!!!why must we send children to 6 or more hours of work? Don’t we have child labor laws or something to help protect them?

Suze…

I have summer vacation all year round J and we learn too, anytime we want, we pack up for funerals and no worries of the kids being behind in work, could you imagine a kid having to catch up on schoolwork when they want to grieve? I am so glad no one has that problem this week.

Sweeps,

While I do have my prejudices, I also want my child exposed to other ideas..after I have had my say and after they are ready to hear them without immediately believing everything they hear…my son heard a conversation about red apples, he thought it odd I bought them after decrying them as gross…he didn’t know the whole story, I was able to set him straight (died waxed apples are not good in my book, and I will gladly pass my prejudice on to him in that regard, gala on the other hand seem quite nice) this is a prime example of simple things kids take for granted. While I will agree that far to many parents do a lousy job ( I have heard yuck at too much junk food) I do not want to give up my right to prejudice my kid toward health food just to make your kid tow a state mandated line, which come to think of it I may not agree with..oh yeah I don’t agree with most of it….. as for learning what you want, you do not have an accurate memory of desire to learn, you were public schooled (based on your post) so you had no real freedom for much time, of course given a few spare moments here and there you chose goofing off! When I have hardly any time I grab a silly scifi, not google interesting answers. On the other hand when I have plenty of time I go find out where condors live, or what fall is like in Japan, or anything else that strikes my fancy, I might even bother to remember it. Please do some hunting of actual unschoolers to see what the process can really be like, and more interestingly the ‘recovered schoolers’ the rule of thumb for a kid to get the learning desire back is one month for each year in public school….pretty long wait for the natural instinct to return. On the other hand children do have some must know topics, in my house simple finance, cooking, writing, and ‘world culture’ fall under that heading, the exact method of photosynthesis does not, nothing wrong with knowing it, but also not gonna hurt their future if they don’t! Although now that you mention it, what is so bad about girls, football or gamming? My husband still follows the teams, and knows all that ridiculous injury list and stats, and who plays who..why is he allowed but not the average 12 year old?

Tabby,

I think kids should be exposed to people of all ages, not just their own. In fact I have often said if my children never learn to interact with 2 year olds I will not be upset at all! I certainly have difficulties! (spoiled brats, the world revolves around a toddler- to the toddler anyway) I think having a kid who can interact with children older, and younger, and adults and peers is very important, how do you age that when you are locked up with kids your own age all day and one authority figure? Not even an adult to interact with, a teacher is more authority figure than adult.

Tina,

I hate to get into the God thing, while I am a Christian, I do not want a state supported educator to decide what portions of the bible are mentioned, but one point I feel is very important, I have an almost 5 year old, while he is amazing, he is not strong enough to hold his own convictions on everything that would be challenged in a public school, we are still working on standing up to grandma with mom in the room (no you cant have a case of cookies for breakfast….) So I do agree that children’s` moral education should be at home. I do wonder however, if you feel that asking school to teach moral obligation reduces the teaching in the home, do you not see how asking the school to teach everything else reduces the teaching of everything else at home?

Cheetah

Rather big task we ask of our teachers…wouldn’t it be better if we only asked you to help teach those whose families couldn’t, instead of all of them…maybe then you would only have 15, and you could concentrate more on that 15…and maybe pee when you needed too

Also, if you had to teach, mentor, counsel, oversee, discipline, etc. 32 pre-pubescent students 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, not to mention take home all of their work……

On history of jeudeo Christianity…I read a wonderful book about a future society that could travel in time, they didn’t normally because it is generally wrong, but the did one time, they saw the history without the brutal Christian takeover, it was an even worse takeover by incan style sacrifice…so they sent a team to get Christopher to carry out his bloody gold digging, hoping it would be better (better doesn’t mean good) then the current team decided to try again, this time to send Columbus, only teach him to be ‘good’ first….interesting book, and brings up an interesting point when looking at the horrors of the world ..it might have been worse, and it is improving. (Which still doesn’t make it ok)

Soappro,

You must live in a totally different district than I taught! (And than cheetah teaches) I had a 30 minute lunch break, no time for grading less I took it home, and they pay was Pathetic! The only perk was seeing those wonderful kids light up when they learned.

[lrjohnson]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

LrJohnson,
I can find you those same examples and worse in a public school, private school, and inbeteween (charter schools, whatever).

Agreed.

tax supported day care
12 years of imprisonment
drones used to suffering thru class after class.
whenever I talk down on mass education it is the system I detest, not the dedicated teachers trying to succeed in spite of it

These are all pretty pejorative statements. I'm not the only one I know that had a great experience in public school. Some teachers, some schools, some districts, even, are doing a great job. Many parents in my community are happy with their kids' schools...not just the teachers, not "in spite" of things, but because the school is serving them and their children well.

[tabbycat31]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I guess I'm just not used to an environment where public education is so opposed. I always viewed it for the good of the community.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Tabby, IMO pulic education is for the greater good, Mass forced education is not.

LR, those who succeed at the system are those least in need of it, we need options, ideas and free education for those 'too old' for those 'too young' for those 'too unable to sit still', for those uninterested in history, but excelling at math..for those 'night owls', and for the 'early birds'...one siize fits all is not working for us..though that one size does fit some.

[sweeps]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

those who succeed at the system are those least in need of it

Couldn't the same thing be said of homeschoolers?

[PrincessPerky]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

err..those who succeed at homeschooling are the least in need of homeschooling? actually no, many people who do so well at homeschooling chose to try it due to a failure of public school....

Or did you mean those that succeed at homeschooling are those the least in need of public help? As someone who is spending quite a bit of my housing tax for NO return I can say I would greatly appriciate either some help for me, or at least the knowledge that the system was NOT failing so many of my friends. I cannot teach all of them! but the goverment could use the tax money for a better way, for more education less babysitting (less forced attendance, more education for adults on how to teach and how to parent).