When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

[rduell]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

When we homeschooled we did so year-round with every Friday off and it worked great. I didn't have to reteach concepts at the beginning of each grade. I actually liked it better because I didn't have bored kids all summer long.

[poundwise]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'


The problem isn't with the local school, the principal or the teachers. It is with the school board and local governments. These people burn through money and then constantly ask for more. Teachers are selling pencils and candy in order to have school supplies and/or finance field trips even while property taxes, fees, and school bond issues are constantly rising and being brought up before the public. This shouldn't be.

If you are like me, the problem isn't with teachers or with any school itself, it is with the fact that the system could be financed and managed with so much less than is asked. The people in the system/government who are crying poverty and asking us if we care about 'the children' are to blame for wasteful, irresponsible spending and poor budget management.

[asmom]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I decided I needed to add a P.S.

My district has nine schools and only one has a music program. The parents at that site believe that music is important for their children, so they fundraise enough money to pay for a full time music teacher. The district doesn't pay for any of that cost. The difference between that school and the others is that it's located in a much higher socio-economic area. Where I teach, most of the parents are farm workers and barely make enough to put food on the table or clothes on the backs of their children. Music is not a priority.

I've taken it upon myself to write a grant to start an after school music program at my school. I haven't told my principal yet, because sometimes it's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. Well see if I get the grant first.

In addition to that, I'm soliciting donations of unwanted materials (mainly from Freecycle) to start a lunchtime knitting/crocheting group so students can learn to make small gifts for their families/friends as gifts or for their own personal use. I won't get paid for this time, as it is during my lunch 50 minutes as well as my students'. That's not the point, being paid or not. The point is that with the No Child Left Behind interpretations, there is NO allotted time for art in the school day. I just can't see not bringing that into the curriculum.

The funny thing is on the list of core curriculum (what is mandated to be taught) art is listed. We have been given a print out of how many minutes we MUST teach in each core area. Art has been relegated to ZERO minutes. Now here's the irony to all of this. Last Tuesday we were told to get together some art projects to be put on display for a "public relations" event on Thursday. Now, some teachers dropped what they were doing to get some quick pieces of art out and up on display to make this deadline. Other teachers boycotted the event saying that it was hypocritical to have us do an instant art project when we haven't been allowed to do art all year long.

Dang, all this venting is like free therapy. All the stuff I can't say at work without suffering reprocussions.

CJ

Thank you for this perspective Cheetahwoman, it was sorely needed!

[asmom]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

i also have a problem (ducking behind protective barrier!) with the concept of summer vacation. i find it antiquated and absurd.

I don't understand this at all. I had 3 months of vacation every year and I managed to learn, get a couple of degrees and here I am. Why cut it out for our young ones? I think children need those 2 1/2 months (summer vacation is only 10 weeks) to rest and recharge and just be kids for heaven's sake. I remember summers spent playing outdoors, reading long books and visiting relatives. As a mom, I need those 10 weeks to rest, not have to get them up and out the door at a certain time, not have to get home at a certain home, be able to plan outings and vacations at a time that is fun and convenient for me, not have to deal with homework, school projects, fundraisers, etc. Every year, they start this talk about year-round school and they keep trying to start school earlier and earlier, and yet the kids aren't getting any smarter! What is the problem this country has with vacation, recess, free time, etc? Your brain needs time to relax.


Whew! (okay that was my turn to vent... )

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

The problem isn't with the local school, the principal or the teachers. It is with the school board and local governments. These people burn through money and then constantly ask for more. Teachers are selling pencils and candy in order to have school supplies and/or finance field trips even while property taxes, fees, and school bond issues are constantly rising and being brought up before the public. This shouldn't be.

Yes! That's absolutely how I feel too. Irresponsible government - starting with the Superintendant on up.

i also have a problem (ducking behind protective barrier!) with the concept of summer vacation. i find it antiquated and absurd. if i were away from my job 3 months out of the year, i guarantee you i'd need some of the reminaing 9 to re-learn things. i think summer vacation takes precious learning time way from our kids, not to mention puts them in the position to have to retain information when it's not being actively practiced.

tpbeana - I was with you up until this point!
Do you have any children of you own by any chance?

The problem with that is there's more to an education than book learning. And there's more to life than an education!

Family ties are just as important. Summer is the only time where families have the chance to travel, get out of thier fish bowl, go camping together. learn to fish, cook marshmallows, sleep in a tent. Ride a bicycle. Play and talk and plan together. Rest from school is just as essential as rest from work. There's trememdous pressure on children to perform at school. That same pressure translate to parents. Sometimes i feel like all I do is nag my children to do their homework. I hate that. I don't want to be a nag. That's not how I want my children to remember me when they look back at their childhood! Children need to be children and play and explore on their own without a script. That's just as important as a formal education.

I agree with cheetah and rduell that all children learn differently.
Of course! And if the 'no children left behind' is just a blanket approach to education - that's not right. But I'm sure that wasn't how it was intended.
It seems to me the superintendant of schools in our area has a little too much power over what is taught by teachers. That's been happening long before the 'nclb' was implimented!


For instance: It's required that all 2nd graders have this *intensive* exposure to China over many weeks. They learn about the fluff and stuff of their culture - and nothing about the repressive and depressing conditions most Chinese live with. They learn nothing about the communist government that punishes critical thinking and religious freedom. They learn about China before they even know a thing about their own country!
Is there some kind of hidden agenda going on here or what?

That's purely from the superintendant and has nothing to do with nclb.

Quite honestly, I don't see any teachers having much control over anything they teach or how they teach it. Everything is dictated strictly from above.
Why would anyone even want to be a teacher under the present circumstances is beyond me. No autonomy whatsoever. (IMHO)

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

And thank you also cheetahwoman for a rare insight into the life and problems of a teacher. Hat's off to you too!

I'd like to add another thing. I wish summer vacations were longer!

I love the free time I get to spend with the kids. I feel that's the only time we get to really bond as a family. There's just so little time left at the end of the day during the school year. The kids grow up so fast and their childhood is quickly slipping away...

I hate the fact that so much of it is spent away from me.

[tinapbeana]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

i have no children of my own, but my stance on summer vacation comes from a) as a kid i hated being out of school (weird, i know), and b) reading i did a couple of years ago about how much time at the beginning of the school year is spend remediating from the previous year.

i'm not, however, advocating a work-horse school system where the kids are shoved through 52 weeks year round of forced drudgery my opinion, though, is to ask: what's wrong with a week off per month, rather than 10-12 all at once? or 2 weeks every 2 months? or, 3 months on 1 month off?

the necessity for an actual summer break (i.e. the need for children to help with farming chores to ready for the harvest) has long since passed, yet we hold on to the tradition.

also, the curriculum has changed. here our 3rd graders have 6 syllable words on their spelling and vocabulary tests, which is something that was not the norm 20 yrs ago when i was their age. 5th and 6th graders don't take 'earth science' or 'life science', they take human anatomy and phisiology, something not offered to me until i was in high school (and that was at a magnet school, it wasn't usually offered at all).

i'm not saying it's bad for kids to learn this stuff at their age.
i'm simply saying that, with a curriculum this dense for children so young, the liklihood of them properly remembering, say, the role fatty acids play in the absorption of minerals and oxygen over a three month break is pretty slim.

[asmom]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

?

The problem with that is there's more to an education than book learning. And there's more to life than an education!

Family ties are just as important. Summer is the only time where families have the chance to travel, get out of thier fish bowl, go camping together. learn to fish, cook marshmallows, sleep in a tent. Ride a bicycle. Play and talk and plan together. Rest from school is just as essential as rest from work. There's trememdous pressure on children to perform at school. That same pressure translate to parents. Sometimes i feel like all I do is nag my children to do their homework. I hate that. I don't want to be a nag. That's not how I want my children to remember me when they look back at their childhood! Children need to be children and play and explore on their own without a script. That's just as important as a formal education.

Now you and I agree on this point 100%. There is so much pressure on kids to learn the stuff needed to pass the standardized tests that a huge part of their education is completely ignored.

[sweeps]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Here's my problem with homeschooling... (Putting aside the horror stories -- because homeschooling and public schooling alike have their share of them.)

We all have our biases and prejudices. I have them, you have them, every single parent and teacher has them. We all have our strengths and weaknesses too. When a person only learns from one person -- no matter how intelligent, well-meaning, and well-educated -- they inherit those biases, prejudices and weaknesses.

In a public school environment, a person gets exposure to dozens of different teachers. That balances out the biases, prejudices, strengths and the weaknesses of each individual teacher.

And I'm sorry, but I do not agree with the idea that you let the child decide what he learns and when. At 12 years old I was much more interested in video games, football and girls than I was in the things I needed to learn in school. Very few children have both the insight to know what they need to learn to be successful in life AND have the innate motivation to learn them.

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

In a public school environment, a person gets exposure to dozens of different teachers. That balances out the biases, prejudices, strengths and the weaknesses of each individual teacher.

In the ideal world, perhaps. But as I said earlier teachers just don't have the autonomy they used to. They're too afraid to show anything different that what is prescribed. The school *system* just doesn't allow for teacher individualism. So any exposure to dozens of different teachers won't make that great a difference in my opinion. On the homeschool side of it, many parents who homeschool are part of a group and take turns teaching different things.

Lets face it, there's no such thing as an ideal education situation. There are pros and cons to both sides.

But lets face it... how can we as a freedom-loving country dare to deny parents their God-given right and obligation to teach their own children?

But this subject is a digression the main gist of the post which is
when did we lose control of our property taxes to a third party school system? I'd be interested to hear your opinion on that Sweeps.

[tabbycat31]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

keep in mind I have no children..... here's my perspective on the subject.

Homeschooling I think is a great concept but that all depends on the family. Some will be better than others at it. I also think it's very key that children learn to interact with others their age, whether it be through extraciriculars (sports, Scouts, etc) or through other venues (church, etc). The one problem that I see is that the kids are not exposed to diversity the way a kid from public (or private) school is. Many homeschool groups are all families of the same religion, socioeconomic status, and probably race. And in order to homeschool, one parents has to stay home (usually Mom). My other problem is that not all parents are qualified to teach their children after a certian level (neither of my parents for example, would have been able to teach me high school math). Teachers have the training required to teach the subject.

AS for public schools. My mom's an elementary school principal,a nd that has to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. Sure she makes a good living, but she's there at 7 every morning, and never is home until late evenings, with another 3 hours of work to do after that. She's lucky to sleep 4 hours a night. This is only her 2nd year on this job, and i worry every day about her health. NCLB is a joke. It teaches kids how to take tests and that's about it. I had pretty strict standardized testing in high school, and I feel that I did not learn the material, I only learned how to take a test. Every class that had a Regents (NY state) exam (and it's gotten tougher since 1998-- the year I graudated) was taught exactly to the test. ANd teachers said things like "I don't care if you ever know this stuff afterwards, just know it for the Regents"

I think teachers should be allowed personal freedom on how to teach the material as long as the students are learning it. Some kids (my sister with a near perfect SAT) are very good at standardized testing, while others (myself) are not. I'd rather dig deeper into one subject and learn the whole picture than a brushup to take a test. NCLB assumes that all children learn the same way, which is very far from the truth.

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I think teachers should be allowed personal freedom on how to teach the material as long as the students are learning it.

You and I are agreed here!

But shouldn't that freedom also be granted parents too?

Hey if they can't do the math, they can always get tutors or do sylvan or worse case - send them back to public school!

curmudgenontheloose

[tabbycat31]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I actually know of many homeschooling families that use community colleges to teach subjects that they're not very good at. It's a good concept.

That being said, I don't think i could ever homeschool unless dramatic circumstances (such as what happened to me in 5th grade when the whole grade turned on me) happened. And I'd place a kid in private school first. I couldnt give up working for that (I'm as far from Suzy Homemaker as they come).

[MonkeyMama]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I have to say interesting thread. I think affordable education for all is a WORTHY goal in our society, that will help us all as a whole in the end. Taxes are needed to pay for it? So be it.

BUT on the other hand, yes, it seems most of the money is going to the SYSTEM and not the schools themslevs. I could type out quite the rant on this subject and my children are only 3 and 1. We have been through the ringer with our school district - VERY political. To make a long story short, when we moved here the average house was maybe 200k and now it is 600k. we are in a new development and the school board planned to build an elemenatry school here for our 1000 homes. One day after living here maybe 3 years and the price of land hand probably tripled they send out a little notice that they changed their mind not to buy the land - it is too expensive. ?????? Um okay, so you dragged your feet and it is too expensive. IT is not exactly getting any cheaper now is it??? This all culminating in the rumor that the school board was paid off by a developer who is now completeing its new homes today, on the old proposed school site. Honestly it is about the only theory I have heard that makes sense - probably true.

Thankfully my neighborhood is full of politicians and educators who got on the ball to from a charter school A charter school is a public school, but can be formed by members of the community, in this case to fill a void. The school district and school board intends to do nothing untilt he schools are bursting at the seams apparently. Oh wait, they already are, who knows WHAT they are waiting for... so we started our own charter school. It's in its second year, and my kids will probably start there in 2 years. The only bright side to this whole mess is the charter school is loads above what the other neighboring public schools have to offer. But I guess the level of parental involvement is a big reason.

we just had a school bond on the ballot that dh, who was heavily involved in starting the charter school, voted for and I voted against. HE said "but the school really needs money." I Said - school needs money I Will write them a $600 check every year. Instead those greedy politicking school board idiots are getting my check every year. we are already assessed around $1k/year on top of our 1% property tax. Now add another $600. It is insane.

My husband thinks he would like to teach but I do not think he would last a week under that system. He likes to challenge authority - I don't think he could handle the bureacracy honestly, we have many friends and relatives who teach. IT is a shame what has become of our school system is how I feel. I thank goodness for the charter system which has produced some excellent schools in our area. No doubt my children will attend some sort of charter school.

I have even felt more and more as my children approach school-age that homeschooling would be the best choice for our family. I just learned last week that the other charter school in our area has a homeschooling program. OFfers supplemental classes and fieltrips, etc. for homeschooled elementary children. I am looking into it for my son - I think it would be a great alternative to just plain old homeschooling. I always kind of felt like we would carry the burden of the majority of his schooling, not pleased with the public schools today, and unwilling to pay $1k/month for private school when I Can teach my kid fine myself. But I think the socialization and all that is important so some middle ground like this charter school homeschooling program would probably make me pretty happy.

Ah, guess it turned into a long rant after all...

[sweeps]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

In the ideal world, perhaps. But as I said earlier teachers just don't have the autonomy they used to. They're too afraid to show anything different that what is prescribed. The school *system* just doesn't allow for teacher individualism.

I think you might be surprised how much autonomy a teacher has. I know a LOT of teachers and they have a lot of flexibility in their lesson plans.

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing you're talking about religious stuff -- prayer in school, Ten Commandments, "Intelligent Design", etc. That belongs at home, church, bible school, but not at school school.

how can we as a freedom-loving country dare to deny parents their God-given right and obligation to teach their own children?

The right and obligation for parents to teach their children doesn't go away just because their kids go to public school. That statement is along the same lines as the "Parents who put their kids in day care don't love their kids as much as those who stay at home with their kids." line I've seen here a few times.

But this subject is a digression the main gist of the post which is
when did we lose control of our property taxes to a third party school system? I'd be interested to hear your opinion on that Sweeps.

Well, I don't know about the situation in your area, but where I live, schools don't have a right to raise your taxes. Taxes can only go up if the community votes Yes for a referendum or the community's elected officials vote for a tax hike. So blaming the school is somewhat misplaced.

Again, I don't know about your particular situation, but I don't feel I'm paying an unreasonable amount of taxes for the local schools. Education is very valuable in my eyes, and I think people greatly underestimate the return on investment they get from having a well-educated society. In fact I think it's hypocritical for someone who's benefited from public education to turn their back on it later.

Now, am I saying the public education system is the poster child for efficient use of tax money? Of course not. Both the school administration and the NEA (teacher's union) can be downright greedy at times. Also I don't like how the NEA protects teachers from getting their performance independently evaluated and gives tenured teachers a free pass to do anything they want with little fear of being disciplined. But unfortunately these kinds of things are just how it is. I don't like that we're wasting billions (trillions?) in a ridiculous war in Iraq -- but that doesn't mean I'm ready to do away with the military.