When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

[budgetmom]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Don't forget the enrollment fees and the book fees.
Seriously though, a better question would be where is the money actually going? It goes to pay the teachers salary, to maintain the school building or to build a new school in an over crowded area, to maintain the buses and to keep them full with gas. It helps to buy computers to help our children learn, it goes for craft projects, it goes for payground equipment and basket balls for gym... if you add up that money that everyone is giving it seems like a lot. But then you have to pay everybody.
I know it stinks because your kids are grown or the go to private school or you don't have any, but what are you going to do? Somebody's gotta pay for it.

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Hats off to you Princess!

I only wish I had the self-discipline it takes to home school.

Thought about it alot. Believe me.

But I am one of the most disorganized (and lazy) people around - which is a terrible thing to have to admit.

I am so jealous - not of people better off than I am - but of parents who homeschool... ! Now there's dedication for you!

Maybe if I knew of a group in our area I would have the confidence to try it...

[sarah]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

You'd rather have an illiterate workforce than pay taxes?

[lrjohnson]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I am very wary of homeschooling, having known some really bad examples. Not every parent is doing it well or for the right reasons. Not all children have parents who can effectively home school. I have no kids and will have no kids, and have no ties the the public school system. but have no problem contributing my tax money to ensuring that future generations have educational opportunities.

Examples off home schooling that went awry that I know of personally include:
A parent not wanting to deal with getting the child to school, so they sign up to home school and the child sleeps late every day, gets up, watches tv, and is ignored. Another where a a mentally unstable woman is keeping her son at home and all he witnesses is her paranoia and only seeing his mom ever, starts becoming like her. A child who spent 7 years being home schooled and not leaving the house except to go to the mall on the weekend-she has no friends, no poeple skills, couldn't get pass the test to get a ged...mom did some very rudimentary scvhooling the first couple years and then just left her kid at home alone, with no stimulation. A white supremacist who has raised three kids to hate just about everybody, not jus tother races. A woman who no longer has contact with the younger siblings and her parents...they were all homeschooled to keep them out of "the system" which was ungodly and too PC according to their views...the woman bitterly regrets her lack of education and can't see how her parents were allowed to deprive her n such a fundamental way. These are off the top of my head. I know many parents home school well, but I don't want the kids who suffer to be forgotten.

[PauletteGoddard]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I'm guessing everyone who's contributed to this thread has gone to private school?

[rduell]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I homeschooled my 5 kids for 10 years and have also had them in public school, so I have seen both sides of the issue.

Kids can get a good and a poor education in both situations. It depends on the teacher, not necessarily money.

It seems like anymore any time there is a problem, the solution is more money.

The homeschooler can have a well-rounded education. There are groups all over the country that get together and have field trips, lessons, etc. There are tons of curriculum to choose from. If one doesn't work for the child you have many other choices.

Our public school recently did renovations to the tune of over $6 million dollars. Where did that money go? Into new offices for the faculty; not fixing up the area the kids are in all day. Sure, they got new paint on the walls. Wow. They spent $8,000 each on 4 columns out in the front of the school that add "architectual interest". These columns are not anywhere near the building itself and serve no real purpose. Wise use of our money? I don't think so. I'd much rather have seen the money go to buying new Math books, like Saxon Math that teaches the kids how to really do the math problems and not just estimate the answer.

Don't get me wrong, there are good things going on in our schools too, but I believe the focus is on more money when it needs to be on education. More money does not necessarily make for a better education.

[lrjohnson]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I'm guessing everyone who's contributed to this thread has gone to private school?

I don't think you were including me, as m y comment was on the pro-public side.....but in case you were...I went to public school all the way, never private. I had extremely committed, excellent teachers in San Francisco in the seventies and eighties at my elementary, middle, and high schools. I feel lucky, because I know not everyone who went to public schools has the experience I had. If I had kids, I'd send them to public schools.

[rduell]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I also went to public school. In fact, it's the same one that my 3 youngest go to now.

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I seriously doubt all the horror stories liberally bantered about. There has always been irrational predjudice against homeschoolers for whatever reason. And it's been nothing but an uphill battle for parents to preserve the right to educate their own children. Imagine! Free speech is not a given here.

I have no misgivings about my inadequacies to homeschool.

That's why my kids go to public school. I might add though, that we moved from another state to find a good solid public school system with excellent credentials. That was the best I could do. For my part as a parent, I try to keep them grounded with lots of christian guidance and critical thinking.

I think the point is being missed though.

I don't have a huge problem with schools being publicly funded. They have to be to some degree. My beef is how the school system ....not elected officials ....have cart blanc control over raising our property taxes if and when they simply feel like it. There is no vote. There is no room for debate or discussion. There is no representation. A constitutional right supposedly guaranteed by our forefathers. We are just one baby step behind NJ and their infamous property taxes. And it's happening all over the country!

In our area we have had tremendous growth in the past 10 years or so. Mostly young families with children looking for good schools too. You might say, "well of course you have to raise taxes to support the influx of all those new children into the system." But you see, that thinking is flawed. It makes no sense! And that is the automatic response to successful school areas ....raise taxes!

Why is that wrong? It's wrong because with all those new kids also comes a new tax base. All those new families will be shelling out $4800 and more into the school system apiece *every year*. Hell - I'm already paying the cost of a PRIVATE education for the public school system! How much can you reasonably be asked to pay for crying out loud??

[SuzeOFan]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

For the record, I've been mostly schooled in public schools, with only 3 years of private during middle school. My husband was public school all the way.

[Cheetahwoman7]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

Well, I can only speak for what I know about California and the school systems here. Yes, before you ask, I am an elementary school teacher in the public education system.

First of all, yes, we have a lottery where monies go to the state school system. What most people don't realize is that the State now reduces the state funding to the schools in amounts that match the lottery funds. Therefore, the schools don't get any more money than they did before the lottery was introduced. In addition to this, the lottery funds are "use specific", meaning they are limited in what you can spend them on...and NO, you can't use them to pay for salaries. This may be why our district hasn't given teachers a raise in FOUR years!!!! Not even a cost of living one!

Also, where school districts used to get most of their funding from property taxes, the State now requires those taxes be sent directly to the State for "redistribution". No longer is the amount people are paying in property taxes reflective of how much money a school system in that tax area is receiving. For some unknow reason, the State takes its share of the property taxes first, then distributes the rest to school districts, city and county governments. That's one of the reasons our city had to close down it's library system, no funds left once the State took the property taxes and redistributed them. How's that for helping educate children? Take away funding for the schools, then close down the libraries, recreation centers and any supportive activities for them.

The local districts here raise monies on bond measures. Bonds have to be voted on and approved by the people living in the district. If the bonds aren't passed, very little in the way of school improvement can be done based on the State's funding. There are two local districts that are trying to pass bond measures this November. One of them is mine. With the money, they hope to rehab (not just paint, but totally rebuild) four schools that are over 80 years old. My school was built to house 350 students. We now have over 900!! The worst of all of this, besides the cracking ceilings and broken cement, is that they never put in any addtional restrooms! Nine hundred students, two sets of restrooms. I'd keep my cracked ceilings if they would put in two more sets of restrooms. (well, and maybe one for the teachers!!!)

As far as fundraising money for fieldtrips and the like, I receive $200 a YEAR for fieldtrips. The cost of the buses (even our own school buses) is $7.50 a MILE. To go anywhere except across town, you have to come up with additional funding. I have always tried to start a student run business, not only to get the funding needed for the fieldtrips, but to allow the students to get a real world perspective on how their actions can produce a benefit for them. They also learn A LOT of math, espeically word problems, as I teach them through the earnings we make.

Ah, and now for the last thing I'd like to comment on, classroom expenditures/costs. My school gives each teacher $50 a YEAR on an "as needed" basis to pay for any materials in class. Let's do the math, shall we: 32 students divided into $50 divided by 10 months....ah, approximately 16 cents per child, per MONTH!!! Now, if you buy something that you, as a teacher, know you'll need but the principal doesn't agree, you don't get reimbursed. Anything over the $50 (if approved) is out of your own pocket. There is no way in the world I can tell you how much I spend each year on my students. I'm a book-a-holic and because I want my students to be as well, I have a well stocked classroom library. Don't even get me started on science experiments and the stuff I need to do those.

I try to incorporate more than just the newly mandated teaching into my classroom. If what the State/Federal government wants is a teacher who can read a script out of a book and where all teachers are reading the same thing at the same time in the same way, they have the wrong teacher here. No Child Left Behind actually, in my opinion, leaves so many students behind because instead of teaching children in a multitude of modalities, wanting things to "click" in their brains and teaching to the highest level, we are left to teach in mainly one way, with one textbook and no supplimentation. Everyone learns in a different way. How can that not be seen by our government?

If the taxes are being taken to help suppliment the State government first, where do the children come in on the list? Our current governer held back $55 BILLION in taxes that were "owed" to the school systems across the State. He, just before the election garble started, said that he was giving funding to the schools....well, duh....it's money he had already held back from giving them, not NEW or ADDITIONAL funding!!!

I'm sorry, this is my own little rant here. I can't speak for other states, or other school districts, only my own. What I see, is from the inside out. Many teachers truly try to do their best for the students. I agree with what one of the other posters said, it's more about the teacher a child has than the school or district they're in. There maybe insane taxes being levied, but they don't seem to make it down to the classroom level, at least from what I can see.

*steps down off her soapbox*

CJ

[lrjohnson]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I seriously doubt all the horror stories liberally bantered about.

The four examples I mentioned were ones I know of directly, in person, with real names and faces: two through my work, one is a friend, and one is in the family. They are not in the least stories I've heard.

I will agree that the pros and cons of homeschooling (which in my view are highly variable depending on the parents) don't directly relate the whether public schools use the funds they have effectively.

[Cheetahwoman7]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

I decided I needed to add a P.S.

My district has nine schools and only one has a music program. The parents at that site believe that music is important for their children, so they fundraise enough money to pay for a full time music teacher. The district doesn't pay for any of that cost. The difference between that school and the others is that it's located in a much higher socio-economic area. Where I teach, most of the parents are farm workers and barely make enough to put food on the table or clothes on the backs of their children. Music is not a priority.

I've taken it upon myself to write a grant to start an after school music program at my school. I haven't told my principal yet, because sometimes it's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. Well see if I get the grant first.

In addition to that, I'm soliciting donations of unwanted materials (mainly from Freecycle) to start a lunchtime knitting/crocheting group so students can learn to make small gifts for their families/friends as gifts or for their own personal use. I won't get paid for this time, as it is during my lunch 50 minutes as well as my students'. That's not the point, being paid or not. The point is that with the No Child Left Behind interpretations, there is NO allotted time for art in the school day. I just can't see not bringing that into the curriculum.

The funny thing is on the list of core curriculum (what is mandated to be taught) art is listed. We have been given a print out of how many minutes we MUST teach in each core area. Art has been relegated to ZERO minutes. Now here's the irony to all of this. Last Tuesday we were told to get together some art projects to be put on display for a "public relations" event on Thursday. Now, some teachers dropped what they were doing to get some quick pieces of art out and up on display to make this deadline. Other teachers boycotted the event saying that it was hypocritical to have us do an instant art project when we haven't been allowed to do art all year long.

Dang, all this venting is like free therapy. All the stuff I can't say at work without suffering reprocussions.

CJ

[rduell]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

No Child Left Behind actually, in my opinion, leaves so many students behind because instead of teaching children in a multitude of modalities, wanting things to "click" in their brains and teaching to the highest level, we are left to teach in mainly one way, with one textbook and no supplimentation. Everyone learns in a different way. How can that not be seen by our government?

CJ

Totally agree with you on this, CJ. Just from the experience of homeschooling the kids it was obvious that they all learned differently. My oldest is very much an auditory learner. The middle one learns best with hands-on projects. Another is a visual learner.

They all say that the 2 most memorable things to them from homeschooling were the timeline we kept on the dining room wall that we added people to as we learned about them so they could see where they fit into history, and the "ear" we made out of objects that they could crawl through and tell me what part of the ear they were in.

[tinapbeana]

Re: When did schools become our 'taxmasters'

i went to public school and wanted to take advantage of the opportunities it presented me, so i did, and got my way paid to college. a lot of kids in the public system don't immediately have the desire to learn, and nowadays things are so crowded that the desire to learn gets overlooked and overshadowed by 'the need to test well'.

i don't have a problem paying taxes towards education. what i do have a problem with are schools in my area that decided to build a brand new facility when their existing facility from 1970 is functioning wonderfully and isn't overcrowded. i have a problem with the fact that my money is being spent to subsidize lunches of hamburgers, pizza, and fries. i have a problem with the fact that recess and PE get cut out, which added to the poor lunches i'm paying for makes for overweight children in general.

i also have a problem (ducking behind protective barrier!) with the concept of summer vacation. i find it antiquated and absurd. if i were away from my job 3 months out of the year, i guarantee you i'd need some of the reminaing 9 to re-learn things. i think summer vacation takes precious learning time way from our kids, not to mention puts them in the position to have to retain information when it's not being actively practiced.