President tests positive for COVID19

[~bs]

It's been obvious your hate for Trump is deep, but where in the heck did you come up with this notion?
If you're so sure of that pick some stocks that go along with this ideology and get rich with the upcoming election.

Trump says A LOT of crazy things, but there's no doubt that he's better for the economy than biden will likely be. The market has been pricing in the higher chances of a biden win for the next few months within the options market, hence the gyrations in september and relative stability recently. The markets anticipating the odds of a biden win is the main reason why the market didn't crash further. The problem with being overly biased one way or the other is that you can miss what is readily apparent to someone paying attention.

[srblanco7]

Trump says A LOT of crazy things, but there's no doubt that he's better for the economy than biden will likely be. The market has been pricing in the higher chances of a biden win for the next few months within the options market, hence the gyrations in september and relative stability recently. The markets anticipating the odds of a biden win is the main reason why the market didn't crash further. The problem with being overly biased one way or the other is that you can miss what is readily apparent to someone paying attention.

Do you have evidence to support the statement that Trump is better for the economy than Biden will likely be? Historic performance (post-WWII) indicates that the stock market performs better under Democrats than Republicans (including Trump).
ttps://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2020/07/23/historical-stock-market-returns-under-every-us-president/#7aadb2bffaaf

In general, the markets like stability in Washington and the current administration's mishandling of the pandemic not to mention trade wars, threats to withdraw from NATO, and general focus on the politics of division have played a role in our current economic underperformance.

[rennigade]

I keep hearing talks of how the pandemic was mishandled by the administration. Ill give you the mask and social distancing gaffes. Thats obvious. What else should have been done?

Airlines were shut down early. Should we have forced everyone to stop working and to shut down all businesses in March? If thats the case, then we will need UBI moving forward. When should those businesses reopen? The fact is, if a single person has covid-19, it can be spread. Should we remain shut down until covid is 100% gone? I believe some of the medical experts say that covid will never go away. Should everything remain closed until we have a vaccine mid 2021?

I still think that if Trump survives, this will be a massive win for him. If someone like him can survive, almost everyone who is healthy can survive. But, people will say he's getting the best medicine and treatment. There's always an excuse.

[Snydley]

I keep hearing talks of how the pandemic was mishandled by the administration. Ill give you the mask and social distancing gaffes. Thats obvious. What else should have been done?

Airlines were shut down early. Should we have forced everyone to stop working and to shut down all businesses in March? If thats the case, then we will need UBI moving forward. When should those businesses reopen? The fact is, if a single person has covid-19, it can be spread. Should we remain shut down until covid is 100% gone? I believe some of the medical experts say that covid will never go away. Should everything remain closed until we have a vaccine mid 2021?

I still think that if Trump survives, this will be a massive win for him. If someone like him can survive, almost everyone who is healthy can survive. But, people will say he's getting the best medicine and treatment. There's always an excuse.

We've learned enough to re-open, with strict social distancing and mask wearing being the key components to minimize transmission. The Northeast really is a model for how it should be done (generally speaking). We had to totally shut down in March because we didn't understand how SARS-CoV-2 transmitted. If it was primarily transmitted via surfaces (which it doesn't seem to be) we would have been in far bigger trouble potentially than we are now. Data is now saying 45+ minutes indoors unmasked within a relative close space leads to infection, and my prediction is lower doses (less time exposed, masked exposure) leads to very small infections that are easily cleared with no symptoms or further transmission. This is not known for sure yet though.

I can't imagine this being a massive win for Trump because the White House is currently full of virus and they have no plan for how to get this under control; it is mass chaos. If he was the only one infected, had mild disease and recovered, it would be a different story.

Also- newest evidence is suggesting larger doses of virus leads to worse clinical outcomes- if this is true, we will see that the cases from White House will mostly not be asymptomatic because they are all working pretty much unmasked all.the.time and not distancing at all.

Stupid arrogant administration ignoring scientists and they are now paying the price.

[disneysteve]

I keep hearing talks of how the pandemic was mishandled by the administration. Ill give you the mask and social distancing gaffes. Thats obvious.

First off, don't underestimate those "gaffes". The administration's disregard for masks and social distancing is a huge problem. As recently as at Tuesday night's debate, Trump mocked Biden for wearing a mask. As recently as Saturday's SCOTUS event, Trump and his crew were packed in side by side, no masks, shaking hands and hugging each other. They have blatantly ignored local laws when holding campaign events around the country, exceeding venue capacity limits and disregarding mask and distancing requirements. And they have openly criticized those who choose to follow those rules and laws.

What else should have been done?

Airlines were shut down early.

Airlines were never shut down! I'm not sure what you're referring to there.

Airlines SHOULD have been shut down early. Commercial air travel should have been grounded. During the absolute peak when NYC was the epicenter of the world, there were still tens of thousands of passengers flying out of NYC airports to points all around the country and beyond. Countless students went on Spring Break trips to Florida and other destinations. The beaches were packed.

It wasn't the US that closed the northern border. The Canadians did that.

We never shut down state borders. All along, we have continued to allow people to move around the country freely, even if coming from a highly affected area.

Should we have forced everyone to stop working and to shut down all businesses in March?

Absolutely, but that isn't at all what actually happened. Some states, primarily those with Democratic leadership, did shut down early. NJ was among the first to shut down on March 21, and there were curfews and limitations even before that. Compare that to Republican led states like Texas or Florida that dragged their feet as long as they possibly could before shutting anything down, and then were quicker to reopen.

Obviously we can never know for sure, but it isn't hard to think that had we actually closed all of our borders and shut everything down in March, the spread of the disease would have been greatly reduced. It also would have allowed things to reopen much sooner.

Look at how other countries have handled this and you can see the stark differences. I have a good friend in Australia. They were totally locked down for weeks. They couldn't leave their homes except for exercise and critical needs. Things then began to reopen, but as soon as there was a "spike" in cases, which for them meant just a couple dozen, the lock down was resumed and is still active today.

If thats the case, then we will need UBI moving forward.

No argument here. I'm all in favor of UBI, COVID-related or not.

[disneysteve]

the White House is currently full of virus and they have no plan for how to get this under control

Of course they have a plan. Haven't you heard? They've now mandated masks in the White House. In October. Only 7 months after the rest of us did it.

[ua_guy]

LOL
So there president has a fever, and this is obviously the only logical step
https://reut.rs/3cPXbN9

The article opens to a discussion of process should the president become incapacitated or dies during an election. I think that's absolutely appropriate, because, here we are. He's unexpectedly in the hospital receiving experimental treatments.

The president has spoken in certain terms around getting rid of ballots or being owed another 4 years regardless of the outcome of the election, potentially delaying the election, and that's just not how our democratic process works. Succession of power is also an important discussion right now - many in the executive branch behave as if the presidency is a family-run business, and it is also not. His children have absolutely no right to assume power in the office beyond the positions they currently (and dubiously-) hold.

[rennigade]

Airlines were never shut down! I'm not sure what you're referring to there.

We never shut down state borders. All along, we have continued to allow people to move around the country freely, even if coming from a highly affected area.

For some reason I thought we shut down incoming international flights. I could be wrong.

We didn't shut down state borders because we have the privilege of being a free country. What you're asking for is a communist run country. Also, just think of the logistics of trying to control every road that connects to another state. If you took every single active duty military personal, would that even be enough to monitor every single road? Would you also be in favor of the police randomly pulling anyone over for no reason and demanding that you show them your papers to prove you didn't leave the state? You of all people should know what crap like that leads to.

As for Australia, that entire country is the size of the greater LA in california. Any time someone references a place that had success by shutting down, look at the population of that area. Unless you can find another place with the same population as us, that talking point needs to be put to bed. You can't compare the two.

[disneysteve]

For some reason I thought we shut down incoming international flights. I could be wrong.

Nope. At certain airports with high international travel like NYC and San Francisco, they were doing temperature screenings as you entered but we all know how worthless those are.

We didn't shut down state borders because we have the privilege of being a free country.

Is there ever a point where a national public health emergency should override certain freedoms? When does protecting the welfare of the people come first?

On March 12, the president declared a national emergency, and then... nothing happened. The borders weren't closed. Travel wasn't significantly restricted. The Defense Production Act wasn't employed (or at least not to any significant degree).

The Constitution begins with a statement about "insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare". And "welfare" includes the health and safety of Americans. What steps were taken on a national level to insure our health and safety regarding COVID?

I realize that the Federal government has limited powers in some areas because states control certain things, but had the administration come out with strong and clear recommendations, most states would likely have followed them. Instead we had aggressive containment measures in some states and virtually none in others, even when their case load was alarmingly high. Some governors even went as far as banning individual cities from enacting their own stricter rules. Just last week, the governor of Florida declared everything could reopen 100% with no restrictions. Why? Because there's an election coming up and he wants things to look as normal as possible to get his guy re-elected. The extent to which the response to a global pandemic has been turned into a political weapon in this country is highly disturbing and benefited absolutely nobody.

[Petunia 100]

Trump says A LOT of crazy things, but there's no doubt that he's better for the economy than biden will likely be. The market has been pricing in the higher chances of a biden win for the next few months within the options market, hence the gyrations in september and relative stability recently. The markets anticipating the odds of a biden win is the main reason why the market didn't crash further. The problem with being overly biased one way or the other is that you can miss what is readily apparent to someone paying attention.

Oh, I think there's plenty of doubt. For example, continuing to pretend climate change is a hoax could be VERY, VERY bad for our economy.

[srblanco7]

[QUOTE=disneysteve;n715474]
First off, don't underestimate those "gaffes". The administration's disregard for masks and social distancing is a huge problem. As recently as at Tuesday night's debate, Trump mocked Biden for wearing a mask. As recently as Saturday's SCOTUS event, Trump and his crew were packed in side by side, no masks, shaking hands and hugging each other. They have blatantly ignored local laws when holding campaign events around the country, exceeding venue capacity limits and disregarding mask and distancing requirements. And they have openly criticized those who choose to follow those rules and laws.


Agreed with all of the above. Adding to the list of things that were managed poorly ("gaffes" being a understatement):
1. disbanding the White House pandemic response team
2. allowing the contract for the company that maintains the national stockpile of ventilators to expire (resulting in subsequent distribution of broken equipment)
3. failing to invoke the Defense Production Act to ramp up production of necessary equipment
4. failing to put in place a national test and trace strategy

Ultimately, I believe it comes down to a failure to listen to the experts and it's cost a lot of American lives.

[mumof2]

Its funny as Trump had a mask with him and showed it during the debate....although that "debate" was comical and didn't achieve anything....I don't know why people are going on about Biden he won't be running anything...harris will be they have both made that clear when they are talking...I don't like either candidate for being president...but if I had to choose one it will be trump...Biden is in bed with the blm and antifa and they are hate groups and I wouldn't support anyone who supports them

[~bs]

Oh, I think there's plenty of doubt. For example, continuing to pretend climate change is a hoax could be VERY, VERY bad for our economy.

Climate change IS a hoax in the sense that it's already been changing over thousands of years is a reality. Sounds convincing in theory, but little proof in reality, much as "peak oil" gloom an d doom has been drilled into our consciousness over the past 30 years. but hasn't come to fruition. The planet already goes into heating and cooling cycles, over the millenia, reverts to the mean. Maybe human activity over the past couple hundred years has accelerated the heating part, but if you look at the science behind it, that will also swing the pendulum and trigger a cooling cycle. The fact is that 2020 is a blip in time, and attempting to extrapolate thousands of years of gloom and doom is a fools errand.

The only things remotely on that scale might be nuclear winter from a full scale nuclear war. Yes, widescale nuclear war would be VERY, VERY bad for our economy.

[Singuy]

Climate change IS a hoax in the sense that it's already been changing over thousands of years is a reality. Sounds convincing in theory, but little proof in reality, much as "peak oil" gloom an d doom has been drilled into our consciousness over the past 30 years. but hasn't come to fruition. The planet already goes into heating and cooling cycles, over the millenia, reverts to the mean. Maybe human activity over the past couple hundred years has accelerated the heating part, but if you look at the science behind it, that will also swing the pendulum and trigger a cooling cycle. The fact is that 2020 is a blip in time, and attempting to extrapolate thousands of years of gloom and doom is a fools errand.

The only things remotely on that scale might be nuclear winter from a full scale nuclear war. Yes, widescale nuclear war would be VERY, VERY bad for our economy.

I wouldn't say record fires and super hurricanes where cat 4-5s are common is "hasn't come to fruition".

It might be of political theater when discussing this issue but home insurance actuary science doesn't lie. If it was such a hoax, our home insurance wouldn't double in FL all of a sudden this year. Looking at beach front property insurance is even more scary.

[Singuy]

I keep hearing talks of how the pandemic was mishandled by the administration. Ill give you the mask and social distancing gaffes. Thats obvious. What else should have been done?

Airlines were shut down early. Should we have forced everyone to stop working and to shut down all businesses in March? If thats the case, then we will need UBI moving forward. When should those businesses reopen? The fact is, if a single person has covid-19, it can be spread. Should we remain shut down until covid is 100% gone? I believe some of the medical experts say that covid will never go away. Should everything remain closed until we have a vaccine mid 2021?

I still think that if Trump survives, this will be a massive win for him. If someone like him can survive, almost everyone who is healthy can survive. But, people will say he's getting the best medicine and treatment. There's always an excuse.

My hospital after the shut down was nearing zero cases daily. It was on the verge of defeat but mask wearing was just not mandated and even made fun of for being weak. Two weeks of people walking around without mask and our numbers went to 150+ a month later, over whelming our drug supply. Now that everyone is wearing a mask despite what Trump says, our cases dropped down to 15.

Yeah it's a big effing deal. We are a laughing stock. My parents have conversations with their relatives weekly from china and they couldnt believe our stupidity as a nation of 5x our population got it under control. And it's not they are lying about their numbers control, but life has resumed to be normal in China.

The Chinese shut down the citizens if there's a spike in cases around the area. This means you are banned from buying groceries unless you get a test. They managed to do that with 5x more people while we still can't get our crap together.