Who's seeking refuge in Canada or abroad if Trump wins?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Lighten up, Francis.

I think you've got that one wrong, but you're welcome to cite your sources.

I want whichever candidate isn't going to c*ck things up. Trump is gonna c*ck everything up.

He doesn't have a plan to improve health outcomes and reduce the number of uninsured citizens. Free market healthcare hasn't reduced costs or improved outcomes in the last 20 years.

He wants financial institutions to run free. I was an income earner when the economy bottomed out in 2009. What a great plan de-regulating the financial industry was.

He doesn't know foreign policy. He's too aggressive there. He thinks he's going to have a wall built so illegals can't cross from Mexico, and then send Mexico the bill. Meanwhile, carpet bombing "Isis" ....get real, man.

He is unable to evaluate the consequences of cleaning up and slimming entitlement programs. Cutting costs is one thing. But he has no plan to support the truly poor and vulnerable, the veterans, the coming epidemic of under-funded retirees in this country.

But, the debt! Yeah, it's not that big of a problem. And if history maintains course, the next Republican president will push the country even further into debt.

What would Bernie Sander do differently than Obama then?

[ua_guy]

What would Bernie Sander do differently than Obama then?

Probably not a whole lot. Bernie is more polarized when it comes to healthcare and financial reform, so he might push more in those areas, but they're all strategies I support and I think are needed.

But for those of us who think the ride with Obama has been acceptable, tuning what's already been done or advancing those things in a good direction doesn't seem like a bad plan.

[FLA]

totally agree

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I support bernie's ideas as well on healthcare and financial reform. I also think that there is too much power centered both in the liberal and conservative elite. I think that most people conservative and elite are sick and tired of this 1% who only differ in their positions socially. They run the country and decisions.

If you don't think so read this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...76b_story.html

A extremely wealthy republican donor who agrees that political and economic system is rigged for the wealthy. Agrees. So you believe that Trump or Bernie would have this support if people didn't think that society is tilting to the wealthy and forgetting everyone else?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Well I think Bernie would be a disaster for the country, economically and otherwise. We will become Venezuela.

[Singuy]

Well I think Bernie would be a disaster for the country, economically and otherwise. We will become Venezuela.

Interesting, many successful European Social Democratic countries out there but you got to pick Venezuela. Cherry picking much?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Interesting, many successful European Social Democratic countries out there but you got to pick Venezuela. Cherry picking much?

I guess some make it work, mostly small homogenous nations. Many more failures than successes though. Greece, Spain, Venezuela. Now Brazil. Many more failures in the third world of the socialism model.

Sanders supporters are dupes who think a nebulous "someone else" will pay for all their freebies.

[ua_guy]

[QUOTE=Weird Tolkienish Figure;424193]I guess some make it work, mostly small homogenous nations. Many more failures than successes though. Greece, Spain, Venezuela. Now Brazil. Many more failures in the third world of the socialism model.

But we're not Greece. We're not Spain, or Venezuela.

Depending on who you ask, and by which metrics, efficiency, or positive health outcomes, the US is either #37 or #15 in terms of healthcare.

Point is, we're not even in the top 10, and every country appearing on those lists before us is single payer/ "socialized" medicine.

Educational ratings fare almost as poorly in the US.


What do you say about all the rural, republican-voting areas of the US that borrow and steal from larger, urban tax bases? Those rural areas can't pay for their services. Should we just cut them off, close their schools, take away their police departments, close their public health centers, stop running planes in and out of their airports?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

But we're not Greece. We're not Spain, or Venezuela.

We will be if that idiot Bernie is elected.

Depending on who you ask, and by which metrics, efficiency, or positive health outcomes, the US is either #37 or #15 in terms of healthcare.

An arbitrary list. By many measure the US is tops in healthcare:

Educational ratings fare almost as poorly in the US.

Despite spending more money than any other country in the world.

What do you say about all the rural, republican-voting areas of the US that borrow and steal from larger, urban tax bases? Those rural areas can't pay for their services. Should we just cut them off, close their schools, take away their police departments, close their public health centers, stop running planes in and out of their airports?

Don't like it? Get rid of the progressive income tax. This will hit less expensive areas equally.

Berntards are economically ignorant. Period.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Berntards are economically ignorant. Period.

I ask you to not call people Berntards.

[disneysteve]

Sanders supporters are dupes

We will be if that idiot Bernie is elected.

Berntards are economically ignorant. Period.

Weird Tolkienish Figure - Please refrain from insults and personal attacks.

You are all free to have political discussions here but only if they are done in a respectful manner.

- Your friendly neighborhood MODERATOR

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Weird Tolkienish Figure - Please refrain from insults and personal attacks.

You are all free to have political discussions here but only if they are done in a respectful manner.

- Your friendly neighborhood MODERATOR

I"m sorry, I get emotional about this. I want people to be wealthy, happy, and wise. I feel that this particular mindset will produce the opposite. Obviously people disagree.

[disneysteve]

I"m sorry, I get emotional about this. I want people to be wealthy, happy, and wise. I feel that this particular mindset will produce the opposite. Obviously people disagree.

Absolutely no problem with people sharing their views and opinions. Obviously people won't all agree or else we wouldn't need this incessant primary process. Let's just keep the discussions civil and topical, not personal about the candidates themselves or other posters.

[ua_guy]

An arbitrary list. By many measure the US is tops in healthcare:

It is?

....are you sure?

.......I mean, I wouldn't call the healthcare system in the US "bad" by any stretch, but John Boehner was absolutely wrong when he said the US has the best healthcare system in the world. If smart, healthy people are going to carry our human race forward, I'm not sure I'd put my money on the US over the long term on its current trajectory. Something HAS to change, and I think we've proven free-market medicine isn't in the best interests of those seeking care.

Here's some light reading:



U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World

http://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/us-healthcare-most-expensive-and-worst-performing/372828/

Bloomberg ranks the world's most efficient health care systems
United States ranked 46th in a list of 48 nations

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2013/08/28/bloomberg-ranks-the-worlds-most-efficient-health-care-systems

Why Survival Rate Is Not the Best Way to Judge Cancer Spending

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/upshot/why-survival-rate-is-not-the-best-way-to-judge-cancer-spending.html?_r=0

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

It is?

....are you sure?

.......I mean, I wouldn't call the healthcare system in the US "bad" by any stretch, but John Boehner was absolutely wrong when he said the US has the best healthcare system in the world. If smart, healthy people are going to carry our human race forward, I'm not sure I'd put my money on the US over the long term on its current trajectory. Something HAS to change, and I think we've proven free-market medicine isn't in the best interests of those seeking care.


]

LIke I said, arbitrary rankings by politically connected groups (Commonwealth Fund?) are meaningless, the US health care system is not perfect, cost is a huge issue, but I also think it's a misnomer to say it's "Free market" when if you were honest you'd admit that there is a huge amount of government already involved in our healthcare system (Medicare, Medicaid, numerous regulations, etc.)

I prefer to look at specific stats when dealing with healthcare. Survivability is a very important one despite what the NY TImes article mentions.

Personally I'd like to be alive.

To me it just seems like people consistently mention the negatives of our healthcare systems, and not the many positives.