Student Loans?

[Fishindude77]

So is this latest student loan debt forgiveness scheme going to fly, or is it just more political BS to win votes and make friends?

[disneysteve]

Let’s keep political comments out of the conversation.

[kork13]

It's too early to tell. Honestly, I've not even bothered reading anything about what this new maneuver is. I figure it'll take at least a year of political/legal sparring to know if it'll actually take effect... so I'm not gonna bother thinking about it yet.

[ua_guy]

At this point it's more of a different strategy than actual details. This avenue incorporates more public opinion and offers more seats at the table to decide what, if any, relief program will be.

As long as the fed is propping up states which suck in more money than they do tax revenue to support its residents, I think the US can afford to boost people who at least try to further themselves and their skills through education.

[crazyliblady]

So is this latest student loan debt forgiveness scheme going to fly, or is it just more political BS to win votes and make friends?

I am not going to discuss the politics of this matter. I have not investigated the terms of the latest initiative. However, that being said, I believe that everyone who takes out a student loan should pay it unless they can get any of it forgiven through one of the existing programs or some kind of benefit of employment. I also think that colleges should be required to make sure all students are fully aware that many scholarships exist that are far beyond what is available through the school. For every dollar that they can get in a scholarship is another dollar they don't have to earn now or in the future. Also, a lot of those scholarships go unclaimed every year. All students and parents should also do the math on what college actually costs, including tuition, fees, textbooks, lab fees, parking, gas, food, and rent or dorm fees, among others. Also, they should calcualte what a potential student loan will cost. I am not against student loans, but to ask a student who may have just turned 18 to make a life changing decision to take out a loan when they have not even done the math on what it has done for their future is not ethical.

[Fishindude77]

but to ask a student who may have just turned 18 to make a life changing decision to take out a loan when they have not even done the math on what it has done for their future is not ethical.

Agree with everything you wrote except the above.
18 Years old is an adult, and time to be making important life decisions. With just a little bit of thought on the matter they should easily see how this borrowing will impact their lives. It's a debt that must be repaid, very simple.

Plenty of "non college" 18 year old kids borrow money and make tough decisions.

[crazyliblady]

Agree with everything you wrote except the above.
18 Years old is an adult, and time to be making important life decisions. With just a little bit of thought on the matter they should easily see how this borrowing will impact their lives. It's a debt that must be repaid, very simple.

Plenty of "non college" 18 year old kids borrow money and make tough decisions.

Oh, I agree that they COULD evaluate data and make decisions that make sense, but many obviously don't or somehow don't have the right information. My nephew went to college several years ago and was told by officials at the college to "just finance everything" without any regard as to the impact on their future. I think that some parents and potential college students are just not thinking about reality of college costs and even whether they should even go to college. Maybe they don't have the right information and go to student loans by default, thinking there is no other way. Did they not think about 529s or even just a savings account years ago? I got all the way through bachelor's and part way through graduate school before needing to take out a student loan. I don't regret doing a student loan, but I wish I had taken a bit of time to apply for more scholarships.

[ua_guy]

About 40% of people over 25 in the workforce have completed a bachelor's degree. The vast majority end up making more money than their counterparts without a degree and even post-secondary education over a lifetime of work.

Say what you want about "non college" people and so will I. They are the largest group of people receiving assistance from welfare and other programs are people without degrees. Smoke that.

[crazyliblady]

About 40% of people over 25 in the workforce have completed a bachelor's degree. The vast majority end up making more money than their counterparts without a degree and even post-secondary education over a lifetime of work.

Say what you want about "non college" people and so will I. They are the largest group of people receiving assistance from welfare and other programs are people without degrees. Smoke that.

Yes, I agree that people with education do often make more money than those without. However, I don't think that means they have to do a 4 year degree. After all, plumbers and electricians who can attend trade school can make around $30 - $40. I have a master's degree and make about $31.00.

[bjl584]

It's probably not going to stick. My advice to anyone with loans has been to keep paying on them and not wait for the government to help you.

If the government were serious about this, then they would stop new loans from being written for non marketable majors, or at least cap the amount that a student can borrow.
I keep asking what happens going forward? Is attempted loan forgiveness a one time deal? What happens next year when a fresh batch of graduates head out into the world with student loans? Are they going to be given loan forgiveness too? And then what about the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that?

[ua_guy]

Maybe higher education should be publicly funded. I think I just saw some minds explode.

[disneysteve]

If the government were serious about this, then they would stop new loans from being written for non marketable majors, or at least cap the amount that a student can borrow.

The government does cap the amount that can be borrowed. The limits on Federal loans are actually quite reasonable. The problem is private loans. Those places will give you as much as you want. No limit. No need to show any evidence at all that you have the ability to repay. Why? Because student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy. That's what needs to change. If private lenders actually had risk of default, you can be damn sure they'd be a lot more careful about how much they give out.

[crazyliblady]

Maybe higher education should be publicly funded. I think I just saw some minds explode.

Head explode is right. I disagree with the notion of publicly funding the higher education of people studying subjects where they will gain unmarketable skills. Also, funding the higher education where there is already an excessive number of people in the field seems ridiculous. In fact, perhaps the colleges offering such degrees should perhaps restrict the numbers of incoming students.

[ua_guy]

I disagree with the notion that colleges are workforce production facilities. While it is true that marketable skills and also very specific skills for employment are gained through higher education, it's not really a secret that there are a lot of dumb people in this country and we're falling behind in many key indicators of health and knowledge. That speaks to two things. One, primary education is lacking these days. That's not shocking because of a willful effort to not adequately fund primary education, teachers, and programs in this country. There's also a lot of dumb people raising dumb kids who then release them into the wild, programmed to work for low wages with minimal skills. These people are terrible parents. While parenting can't be fixed, the educational system can. It can remain rigorous and be held to higher standards without the input of the lowest common denominator. Adding another two years of public education to knock out basic degree requirements or offer trade education might improve a lot of things around here.

Public education has been turned into public daycare, and it shows. It's actually not the kids who have so-called "unmarketable" degrees that are the problem with regard to mounting student debt. A majority of educational debt is incurred by people without means who tried to complete an education but failed. Not only do they not have a degree, but they still own the debt--which cannot be discharged. People who complete degrees tend to repay their loans and go on to support themselves independently.

[Fishindude77]

Maybe higher education should be publicly funded. I think I just saw some minds explode.

Already get twelve years plus kindergarten for basically free. Another 2-4 years or more of the same type of educational system probably won't improve things much.