Should Homeownership Mean Homeownership?

[james.hendrickson]

I'm seeing this a lot on Twitter these days. Its the idea that if you own your home free and clear, you shouldn't have to pay taxes on it. The objection is that taxes really obfuscate the definition of ownership. The thinking is that if local governments can seize your property if you don't pay, then you don't really own your property. You're a de-facto slave to the county or whoever is the taxing authority.

I'd be curious as to the forums viewpoint.

[ua_guy]

I think home ownership does mean home ownership and that has not changed. A home can be liened for other debts, why not delinquent taxes? It's not like the city/state/country stops providing services to your home once you own it. Roads still go there and have to be maintained. Any power/water/sewer infrastructure that is publicly funded has to be kept up. Police protection, fire protection, and other contracted services are still provided. Public schools are funded by home/property taxes in many areas. Still have to pay them even if I don't have a kid but do have a home.

You're probably seeing "this" on Twitter a lot these days because the platform has turned into a bot/scam/porn/falsehood -fest run by a man who apparently supports undermining the rule of law.

[bjl584]

I mean, I own my truck free and clear, but I still have to pay registration on it every year to legally keep it on the road.
If I stopped paying, the government couldn't take it away from me, but it would become a lawn ornament.

I'd consider owning a home as meaning you don't have a mortgage on it.
You can't do much about taxes, HOA, and insurance.

[disneysteve]

There is no shortage of idiots on Twitter especially since Musk took over.

Anti-government folks and conspiracy theorists have actually been saying this for years so it isn't new. Yes, we all have to pay taxes and license fees and registration and permits and whatever else. That doesn't mean you don't own your home or your car or other property. It just means there is a cost of ownership. There is a cost to live in a civilized society. If you want clean water and trash collection and roads and snow removal and public schools and libraries and police and fire services and municipal workers, you need to do your part to pay for them.

[Fishindude77]

You always have the option of renting or being a traveling vagabond if you don't like paying property taxes.

We also should speak up to our local elected officials regarding property taxes if things are getting out of hand. About 70% of my property tax funds the local school systems which have gotten out of control with their spending.
School board folks have heard from me on more than one occasion when they were proposing some massive spending project.

You also have a vote and can run for local offices or school boards and get more involved with how money gets spent locally.

[disneysteve]

[QUOTE=Fishindude77;n748113]You always have the option of renting or being a traveling vagabond if you don't like paying property taxes.[/QUOTE]
Renters are still paying property taxes indirectly. They pay rent and the owner uses some of that money to pay the taxes.

[srblanco7]

"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society"

[ua_guy]

About 60% of our property taxes go to funding local schools. We've never had kids. Will I get a rebate for that someday? Probably not. I'd get involved locally, but I'm a childless adult and apparently my opinions and votes should be worth less than those with kids. (not). Actually, the only thing I'd encourage is less spending on professional sports stadiums for middle and high school football/sports and more on teachers and academics, even if my tax bill doesn't go down. That's $8400/year I'm paying just to local schools, for kids I don't have. You're welcome.

Even if there was no property taxes on homes, do you really own the home? You may "own" it for as long as you live. You may not even truly own all the dirt underneath your home if it contains minerals, or a needed water supply. And there's the chance the government can just "eminent domain" you property anyway. They have to pay you for it, but you may not get what you want.

[Fishindude77]

[QUOTE=ua_guy;n748123]
Even if there was no property taxes on homes, do you really own the home? You may "own" it for as long as you live. You may not even truly own all the dirt underneath your home if it contains minerals, or a needed water supply. And there's the chance the government can just "eminent domain" you property anyway. They have to pay you for it, but you may not get what you want.
[/QUOTE]

Not too long ago I enrolled in a state program to have our farm recognized as a homestead being in the same family for over 100 years. Our place has been in the family since 1909. You get recognized at the state fair, get a nice sign to display, etc.
In researching the ownership history, what I realized is that previous family just had the privilege of taking care of this piece of ground for 40 years or so before it's passed to someone else or sold off. We're now at 34 years, however we started early and longevity is better so we may sit on it for 50 years or a bit more, but that's about it. You just take care of someplace for XX number of years, you can't take it with you.

[ua_guy]

[QUOTE=Fishindude77;n748124]

Not too long ago I enrolled in a state program to have our farm recognized as a homestead being in the same family for over 100 years. Our place has been in the family since 1909. You get recognized at the state fair, get a nice sign to display, etc.
In researching the ownership history, what I realized is that previous family just had the privilege of taking care of this piece of ground for 40 years or so before it's passed to someone else or sold off. We're now at 34 years, however we started early and longevity is better so we may sit on it for 50 years or a bit more, but that's about it. You just take care of someplace for XX number of years, you can't take it with you.

[/QUOTE]

Yep. Not to say it isn't yours for the time being, though.

Homesteading... that was a concept new to me when I lived in MN. I couldn't really understand what meaning it had, other than a partial exemption on property taxes. There is nothing really "homestead" about a new tract home...lol

[EasyMoney00]

[QUOTE=ua_guy;n748123]About 60% of our property taxes go to funding local schools. We've never had kids. Will I get a rebate for that someday? Probably not. I'd get involved locally, but I'm a childless adult and apparently my opinions and votes should be worth less than those with kids. (not). [B]Actually, the only thing I'd encourage is less spending on professional sports stadiums for middle and high school football/sports [/B]and more on teachers and academics, even if my tax bill doesn't go down. That's $8400/year I'm paying just to local schools, for kids I don't have. You're welcome.

[/QUOTE]

Lol, this. We live in a depressed area and our high school managed to dump $5 million in a new football stadium and track. I think it went $1 million over budget...supposed to only cost 4. What a colossal waste of money. Stadium prior to that had real grass. Now, kids are getting more dinged up due to the insanely hard astro surface. Hey, at least it looks pretty.

I dont mind paying property taxes. I do wish the money was better spent. I think a lot of people feel that way.

[myrdale]

I am personally against property tax. I have a hard time accepting that I am taxed on my income and on the materials I purchase.

I always get a laugh out of it when I mention needing to go to the court house to pay my property tax and the person I am speaking to looks at me fun. "But property tax is part of the escrow of your mortgage isn't it?" NOPE no mortgage no escrow. I get the pleasure of going to the court house and cutting a check for $2,000 to live in my house.

The single largest scam our government runs is taking income tax out of our paychecks. If instead everyone had to go cut a check for $1000 each month, there'd be people with pitchforks on every street corner.

[disneysteve]

[QUOTE=myrdale;n750228]I am personally against property tax[/QUOTE]

How do you propose everything our taxes pay for be funded in lieu of taxes. Schools, trash collection, snow removal, sewer service, police, fire, roads, bridges, public transit, etc.

[riverwed070707]

I love this topic! Of course we need property taxes - its part of living in a society with public services. Even if you don't have kids, funding quality schools improves everything from the quality of healthcare you receive to the value of your home because home values are higher in communities with good school district. Eliminating property tax would disproportionately benefit the rich or at least the well off and there is no way we'd be able to recover that lost income to fund services through another fair means. This is how you end up with privatized fire departments who only come if you pay an annual subscription fee while other people's homes burn.

That said, I'd be incredibly supportive of eliminating income tax in favor of a VAT. I think taxes should be based on what you spend and not what you make. It would create more accountability for the wealthy to pay their fair share, put more money in American's pockets stimulating the economy and give people in poverty more of a say over how they manage their income. No reason we need to be taking interest free loans from a single mom who is struggling to pay her rent and then give it back to her each April.... just let her have her paychecks.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

VAT is a tax on goods so it disproportionately taxes poor who use a great percentage of their income for necessities. That being said I'd pay a flat tax. Everyone pays no matter what type of income the same tax capital gains, income, etc. We'd be trapping everyone who lives off investments the same as workers.

Property taxes don't get me started on the property taxes I am paying to have my school cut from 7 high school periods to 6 periods next year. Completely ridiculous. Required credit to graduate high school? 24. Classes offered? 24. So fail one and you fail. Today they ran a lunch and learn for parents who are all livid. They suggested that the required 0.5 credit health be taken over the summer. And PE will be waived. Classes required by the STATE, not the school district. Other school distrcits when the state required 24 credits to graduate also moved to 7 period or 28 high school credits to make sure kids could finish.

Yep the school district is saying 7 periods is too much work for kids so 6 is easier to pass so all kids should be fine. And they can try to figure out how to pay for extra credits outside the district. Basically if you can afford it you will. I already am doing it for my DK we've paid for health online and now civics to give her breathing room to take more classes. Guess being poor in our district is going to suck even more. So much for "Equity". Lip service. They aren't trying to be equitable. They are cutting help for those that need it the most.

Also they need a lot less teachers because there are just less classes going to be offered because kids will all take the same basic classes. Another suggstiong is to NOT take 4 years of high school math because only 3 is required to graduate so the kids can use the period senior year to do something else. Yeah my school district is upset parents are mad and complaining. Why wouldn't you be? Basically you are cutting costs at our expense.